TYA Game Thread, Monday June 20th, 2011

86 Responses to TYA Game Thread, Monday June 20th, 2011

1. UYF1950 says:

   June 20, 2011 at 6:54 pm

   Why in the world Girardi continues to insert Jones in the line up is beyond me. He’s terrible. Gardner has done everything he’s been asked to do by the Yankees and he still isn’t being given a shot at everyday play. It’s unbelievable. Gardner’s stats across the board this season verses lefties or righties are very similar. Certainly as good if not better than Jones even against lefties. In my opinion this is a mistake Girardi continues to make.

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   Steve S. Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:03 pm

   He barely plays once a week. If he’s not good enough to do that, he shouldn’t be on the team. I suspect you’d like that, but who replaces him? Greg Golson? Justin Maxwell? I’ll keep Jones and hope he runs into one here and there.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

   One of the things I like about Joe is he always gets bench guys and back of the bullpen guys work. One of my problems with Torre is he always relied on a certain number of guys only, and then when a back of the pen, or bench guy needed to come up big he wasn’t ready. Joe makes everyone on the team, apart of the team.

   Hopefully we see more of Jones DH’ing against lefties when we get back to regular play so Gardner’s D stays in the game.

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   Steve S. Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

   Bingo, and that pays dividends down the road (re October) especially for a team with some age on it.

   Those late 2000s Torre teams were gassed by the time they hit October, I’m glad this Joe learned from that Joe’s mistakes.

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   UYF1950 Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

   How about Dickerson as a viable option to Jones? Jones appeared in all 3 games recently against the Rangers and I believe 1 game against the Cubs with absolutely no success and that’s only his most recent failures. You are correct I do not think he should be on the club. At best Jones is only adequate in the field and a hindrance on offense. That’s just my opinion.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

   Dickerson has no pop, and I’m not sure he’s much better in the field. Just because he got some hits when he was called up doesn’t mean Dickerson isn’t a AAAA player.

   Say what you will about Jones but he does still have 20 homer power, and I think they liked what Thames gaves us last year with his power. Difference is he isn’t hitting for anything else right now, unlike Thames.

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   Mike Jaggers-Radolf Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:20 pm

   It really boggles the mind. Gardner has never shown much of a split, and he’s been one of the Yankees’ hottest hitters, not just recently, but now on the season. It’s almost as if the Yankees are desperate to destroy his confidence.

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   Steve S. Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

   The reasoning has generally been that Gardy plays against lefties, but not tough lefties. Ones that throw hard.

   http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=9884&position=P#velocity

   Meh, maybe he just needs a day off.

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2. Steve S. says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:00 pm

   Here’s a quick update on how a Yankee draft pick fared in the CWS this afternoon

   johnmanuelba John Manuel
   Sam Stafford has been excellent for the #Horns, 3 shutout IP, 1 hit. How much will Augie Garrido second-guess himself if #UNC holds on? #CWS

   Big lefty, college pitcher, occasionally spotty control. Maybe some mechanical tweaks with Nardy iron out the bouts of wildness. I like the pick, hope he signs.

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3. Professor Longnose says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:13 pm

   This game is on both YES and ESPN. I’m watching the ESPN feed for variety.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

   You’ll flip over. For the most part those guys dislike the Yankees, and in general call a bad game. Their better than what they did have, but that’s not saying much haha.

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4. Professor Longnose says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:18 pm

   I probably will, but I want to see how these ESPN guys are. I like listening to Gameday audio feeds from the other side sometimes. If nothing else, it gives me something to compare the Yankee guys to.

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5. Professor Longnose says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:20 pm

   All right! 2-0, more possible. Yanks have their hitting shoes on.

   I was sort of glad to hear that Rodriguez had a shoulder injury. It explains his lack of power, and it looks like it might get better fairly soon.

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6. T.O. Chris says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:21 pm

   4 hard hit balls in this inning. Swisher, Teixeira, Alex, Robbie, Not one weak one in the bunch.

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7. Professor Longnose says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:22 pm

   One of the ESPN guys just said that Wood probably is liking seeing Martin at the plate because he grounds into lots of DPs. But there’s no runner on first.

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8. Matt Imbrogno says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:28 pm

   You think Votto’s ever like “WTF?” when he catches an IF pop up, considering he never hits IF pop ups?

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   Professor Longnose Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

   I read that stat a while back, that he hadn’t hit a pop all year. Is it still true?

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   Matt Imbrogno Reply:
   June 20th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

   He has not, according to FanGaphs’ batted ball data, hit an infield fly ball since 2009.

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9. Steve S. says:

   June 20, 2011 at 7:29 pm

   Hey Cincy, WELCOME TO AMERICAN LEAGUE BASEBALL!

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10. Steve S. says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Apparently, Martin has been hanging out with Cervelli.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    At least the runner didn’t get to third.

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11. Professor Longnose says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Now there’s his DP.

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12. T.O. Chris says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Phillips, Votto, and Bruce is one of the best young cores in baseball.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    I can’t think of a better one.

    ESPN is running the Cincy TV feed, I think. They keep saying “we.”

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    I think Hanley, Stanton, and LoMo have just as much talent, and maybe more. Stanton is a 30-40 HR guy, Hanley could be the best SS in the game, and LoMo has shown great power potential with his bat control.

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13. T.O. Chris says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    How unluck has Pujols been for a contract year? He’s like the Bizzaro-Adrian Beltre. He just lost millions with that break, especially coupled with what is being percieved as a down year.

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14. Steve S. says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    CBean says:
    June 20, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    is there a reason you don’t get an RBI if you hit into a double-play or is that just one of those arbitrary rules?
    Reply

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    Steve S. says:
    June 20, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Little known rule-If you hit into a triple play and a runner scores, they subtract an RBI.

    Sometimes, I just crack myself up.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Don’t forget to tip your waitress.

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    Steve S. Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Zing!

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15. T.O. Chris says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Steve, if in some fantasy world you were Yankees GM. If the Twins asked for Nova, Nunez, and Romine for Liriano would you do it? Obviously implying they see Nova, Romine, and Nova as starter.

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    Steve S. Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Ooooooh, that’s a really tough one. Which is another way of saying great question.

    Let’s see. That’s a LOT of MLB average talent for a guy with big, proven upside, but big injury risk as well. I’ve always said I wouldn’t trade anyone for Liriano that I’d kick myself over (Montero, Sanchez, B’s) and I don’t see anyone in that deal that I’d miss too much.

    That’s a win-now deal, I can’t assume Liriano is healthy next year or down the road. In terms of org depth, I still have Pena as my backup SS, Montero in AAA (who’s blocking Romine) and the starters replace each other.

    Yep, I do it.

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    Steve S. Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    BTW-I’d bet if you total the WAR of both sides of that deal 3 years down the road, the Twins would come out big winners. But again, that’s a deal you make to win the WS this year. Lefty to face the Red Sox, a little insurance when CC opts out, I do it.

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    Matt Imbrogno Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    I don’t think I’d do it now. Before the season, yea, I would’ve done that. But with Lirano’s health a question mark, I’d pull Romine out. I think he can be saved for something a little more sure-fire.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    He has looked better of late. His strikeout rate has gone up and his walk rate has gone down since going on and coming off the DL.

    I think I’d have to do it, and risk the injuries with Liriano. With his upside and potential he could (small chance) end up a great number two on this team for several years at least. This year alone he gives us a L, R, L rotation heading into the first round of the playoffs, with Colon/Hughes available as the 4th starter perhaps. We would finally have Garcia as the 5th starter, and Liriano isn’t making a ton of many.

    I’ve always been a sucker for his potential though.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    I only see Romine as a big potential loss. I see Nunez as an average SS at best, and Nova should always remain a 4-5 guy with decent stuff. Romine has the most unknown ceiling to me. However I think I have to risk that for the upgrade that is Liriano over Nova, the move just upgrades the whole rotation immediately.

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16. China Joe says:

    June 20, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    I have to say, the Reds announcers call a good game…I’ll take them on the road over any ESPN guys.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Is the ESPN broadcast the Reds guys, or an ESPN team? I think one of them is Aaron Boone. Does he work for the Reds, or ESPN?

    EDIT: Wikipedia says he works for ESPN, so this isn’t the Reds team.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Boone is an ESPN employee. He does baseball tonight a couple of times a week, but he played for Cincy.

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17. Professor Longnose says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Boy, Jones looked terrible not running that out.

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18. China Joe says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    …still a better bunter than Gardner

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19. Steve S. says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/06/next-stop-on-the-phil-hughes-rehab-tour-new-britain-50825/

    Matt, isn’t that your neck of the woods?

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    Matt Imbrogno Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Loosely. That’s still far away from me; I’m in Greenwich, right over the NY border:

    http://www.jud.ct.gov/directory/maps/Juv/JuvMap4-nonumbers.gif

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20. China Joe says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    This is starting to look like your typical 2011 Yankees offensive performance…and not in a good way.

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    Eric Schultz Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    As long as it results in more runs than the opposition scores, I’m not too picky.

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    Matt Imbrogno Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Yep; a performance in which they’ve scored more than the opposition.

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    China Joe Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    C’mon, you know what I mean…this is a pretty comfortable game because they put up 4 runs in the first instead of 2 or 3, but this has been another “come out blazing, let the starter off the hook, then completely shut down” games. No way Travis Wood should have lasted into through the 7th.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    I agree with you. I know that their run distribution is descriptive not predictive, but I worry about it anyway.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    I’d rather be scoring runs early and winning than late.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Their failure to hit late has probably cost them wins. The Yankees are underperforming their Pythagorean expectations. Their run distribution is not optimal, and while a lot of that is probably luck, it may also have something to do with their not being able to hit in the late innings.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Late innings in games for a lot of teams usually consist of hard throwing setup men and closers. That’s not always the case, but in close games in the 8th (sometimes the 7th) inning and on you see guys with good stuff. Early in games Starters haven’t gotten settled in and they make more mistakes. I think it more likely has to do with the what they are seeing, and not some mental block for everyone on the team late in games.

    

    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    Paul O’Neill commented early on Brett, that he was valuable to the Yanks for his energy, that they can tend to coast at times.

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21. smurfy says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    Hey, Professor, ESPN heard us talking about the K-zone last night. It works a lot better, shows where the ball crossed the plane, probably at the front of the plate.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    They’re showing it during the pitches, not just for replays.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    yeah, I thnk I like it. Your idea about a 3d view, that could really help to get a better idea of where the plate is, overcoming the longlens distortion of viewing from left-center.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    I’ve heard good things about the straight centerfield camera view, which supposedly cuts down on the distortion, but haven’t seen it used.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    I guess you’d have to make the pitcher invisible, so he wouldn’t block you out. I think the camera position tonight was more oblique than the Yankee Stadium shot, making the calculus of where the plate is a little different.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Next, they need to make the box taller, to reach the “letters,” since sometimes it looks like the top is at the belt buckle.

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    Matt Imbrogno Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    Technically, the K-zone is the catchers’ knee to his shoulders.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    so I see. Why does that make sense? simplicity?

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22. Eric Schultz says:

    June 20, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Nova’s doing work, nice pitch count too

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    yeah, I think he’s more valuable than Steve or Chris were saying, above.

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    Eric Schultz Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    7 IP, 1 run, only 91 pitches, not bad at all. Getting some strikeouts too. He’s probably helped somewhat by the Reds never seeing him before, but still, solid performance against a strong hitting team.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    His curve is sharper than it has been, and his command of it is better.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    He has thrown a couple curves tonight that may have been his best all year. He still has too many loopy, lazy curves though.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    He has done well, but Bruce and Votto have torched some balls that should have gotten down. There is a little bit of luck going in his favor tonight, but all pitchers need that.

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    China Joe Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    but…but…I thought only the Yankees can’t hit a starter they haven’t seen

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Did I say he was terrible? I said he is a guy who will always be a 4-5 starter and will never have the potential of Liriano. There is nothing untrue about that.

    Everyone who tries to compare him to Wang has forgotten what Wang was at his best, Nova will never be a 63% GB type of pitcher. Those are elite ground ball numbers.

    He can contribute to a winning team, and I think he could have an OK career. But at his best Liriano is light years ahead of what Nova can ever hope to be.

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    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    He’s nothing like Liriano, but he’s a rookie, and to determine that he doesn’t have much headroom, that he can never be more effective than what he is now, that seems to be the operating assumption.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    That’s putting words in my mouth though. I never said he couldn’t be better than what he is now, in fact I made room for him to get better by saying he could becomes a number 4. I said he would never be as good as Liriano has been and could be again, there is no debating that. Nova is a groundball, low strikeout guy, and while he may get better at being that he won’t all of a sudden become a strikeout pitcher. What he is has limited upside, his best pitch is an average to slightly above average fastball. He would have to improve light years on his curve, and change or slider, to become more than a good number 4.

    Liriano has ace potential, I think his realistic upside is a perfect number on a team looking to win a World Series. He has a plus fastball, one of the top sliders in baseball, and a plus changeup. His overall stuff and makeup just gives him a higher ceiling than Nova does.

    The thing about Nova is he doesn’t have the highest ceiling in the world, but his floor is pretty high. I don’t see him ever being worse than a solid number 5 pitcher, and there is nothing wrong with that. But expecting him to become a 3, or especially a 2 is what’s assumptive.

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    Eric Schultz Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    I think that’s fair. Definitely a cheap, useful #5 though.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    He has value no doubting that, but his value isn’t Liriano’s this year or in the future. Which is why I would make the trade.

    

    smurfy Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    Chris, it may be true that the Reds hven’t seen him, giving him the luck not to get scored on, but he may be improving. If he were to keep it up, you could make your deal, and give up less.

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    Eric Schultz Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    he definitely looks better, I didn’t mean to imply that it was just the unfamiliarity factor. The curve looks better than usual, and his location has been very solid.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Once again he can improve but he isn’t going to become what he is isn’t. This game isn’t his consistent level of production, it’s about the best you can hope for, on a gay he has his best stuff. He will give you some of these games, but he will give you many more mediocre and bad games.

    I see no reason for the Twins to take less than that. They get no real star potential prospect out of the deal, and they are taking a leap of faith with all 3 of the players coming back. That’s really why it makes since. Both teams are taking calculated risks, one for this year and the immediate future, one for 3-4 years down the road.

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23. China Joe says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    This is the best you could possibly hope for from Nova: effective lengthy starts. Of course we all wish he had a put-away pitch…but he probably never will. Still, the value of starters who can maintain low pitch counts and pitch deep into games is hard to overstate. It’s not Nova’s fault so many of the guys in the front of the rotation haven’t done their job…he’s been doing his job as a back-end guy this year.

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Nova coming into tonight averages 5 innings per game, he’s not exactly an innings eater. This game is really the outlier, and not the standard. He’s mostly a guy who is good through 4 or 5, and starts to fall off after that.

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    China Joe Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    I meant that being a back-end innings eater is the best case scenario for his career.

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24. China Joe says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Another strong start by Warren in AAA: 7 IP, 2 H, 2 BB, 8 K. Keep up those K’s.

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25. Eric Schultz says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    ugh, Logan

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26. Duh, Innings! says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    What a coincidence that when Girardi makes a pitching change the game takes on an ominous tone.

    Another copout by Girardi going to Mo who will save his bacon again.

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27. smurfy says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Mo really pitched Bruce tough. Nice work.

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28. Professor Longnose says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    T.O,,

    “Late innings in games for a lot of teams usually consist of hard throwing setup men and closers. That’s not always the case, but in close games in the 8th (sometimes the 7th) inning and on you see guys with good stuff. Early in games Starters haven’t gotten settled in and they make more mistakes. I think it more likely has to do with the what they are seeing, and not some mental block for everyone on the team late in games.”

    That’s possible, and I don’t think it’s a mental block, but they’re doing poorly compared to the league. Their sOPS+–their OPS for the split compared to the league–is 140 in innings 1-3, 127 in innings 4-6, and 105 in innings 7-9. They are very much better than the league in the first two thirds of the ballgame, and then just barely better than the league in the late innings. I don’t think the setup men and closers they see are better than the rest of the league sees. Or are they, for some reason?

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    T.O. Chris Reply:
    June 20th, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    I would say it has to do with their approach. The Yankees tend to take a bunch of pitches and wait for mistakes, relievers could be taking advantage of that fact and pounding the strike zone. If you only get one at bat from a pitcher you can’t work him over the course of the game. They may need to take a more aggressive approach late in the game. Just a thought.

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    Professor Longnose Reply:
    June 21st, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Very possible. I saw somewhere that the Yankees have had mediocre RISP numbers throughout the Kevin Long era (compared to their non-RISP numbers, not the league, as I recall). That’s not a knock on him–their overall runs scored probably makes it worth it. But it could be something to do with their approach, encouraged by Long.

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29. smurfy says:

    June 20, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    The Espn play-by-play guy insisted on using the lame K-zone (where they recorded the pitch at the point of the catch) to show Mo’s first two called strikes were balls. Balls!

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    Captain Mick Reply:
    June 21st, 2011 at 7:33 am

    He had a point on the second one (strikezone plot from Brooks)

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