Hughes tests come back negative

25 Responses to Hughes tests come back negative

1. T.O. Chris says:

   May 2, 2011 at 8:33 pm

   Definitely good news for Hughes, but to me this just confirms that he is suffering from the innings load he took on last year. IF I’m right he may not recover his fastball this year period, but honestly he doesn’t need it to succeed, he needs the control he has never had. Instead of spending all this time trying to force MPH’s back into his arm they should be focused on spotting the fastball, confidence in the change, and getting better break on his curve.

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2. Duh, Innings! says:

   May 2, 2011 at 8:36 pm

   LOL @ that Twitter pic. Ever heard of a shaving razor, Benico Del Toro?

   ‘Glad to see Hughes’ tests came up negative, but what is his deal then? Why the dead arm? Those tests only show what he doesn’t have.

   I’m watching this game and this team needs a new hitter who can hit for average as well as a #3 or better starter. Cano is basically the only everyday player who can hit .300 or better and that’s just not cutting it.

   Awful game by the Yankees tonight. Jeter can’t drive in a run with an out. Too many men left on base against the only other ace in the A.L. besides C.C. Sabathia and Felix Hernandez, and they’ll pay for it if they keep it up. At least they drove up Verlander’s pitch count to 90 or so through four innings.

   Time people started getting on A-Rod along with Jeter. Batting average a little above .270 thus nowhere near .300 or even .290. He’s Jekyll & Hyde at the plate. Only 5 HR is a 30 HR pace by month, same if he doesn’t hit a homerun tonight or tomorrow (through 27 games / a sixth of the season.) The Yankees did not give this guy a record contract to post .275 BA, 31 HR, and 110 RBI which are great numbers for most players but crap when you’re pulling down close to $30M a year.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 8:42 pm

   You do understand batting average is the most worthless stat in baseball right? Alex’s OBP coming into this game was .389, that’s elite. trying to compare that to Jeter’s .308 OBP is ridiculous. In fact Alex’s career OBP is .387, so he is right in the area he should be at.

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3. Betsy says:

   May 2, 2011 at 8:57 pm

   It’s great news for Phil’s long-term future, but as to his ability to pitch, this is a puzzler. It’s not like he lost 1 MPH, he lost 3 or 4 MPH off his FB

   Phil has a funny way of short-arming the ball……..maybe that’s a cause of his issues? Also, some pitchers are not built to withstand the grind of pitching. I get that Phil is a big kid, but the arm of a giant like CC is built just the same as that of Mo, Pedro or other slender pitchers.

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4. Betsy says:

   May 2, 2011 at 8:58 pm

   Control he has never had? All I read about in the minors was that Phil had fantastic control. How do you lose that in the transition to the majors? Maybe his leg injuries hurt him worse than we thought?

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:09 pm

   The problem with Hughes’ control is that he is extremely wild within the strikezone. He misses all over the zone, but when he was in the pen throwing 95 it was glossed over, when he was throwing 93 in the rotation it was glossed over, but the times in his career that the velocity went down for one reason or another it has been exposed.

   He’s never been a guy who pinpoints, he just at times doesn’t miss out of the zone as often as he does within it.

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5. Betsy says:

   May 2, 2011 at 9:01 pm

   That said, I think it’s up to Phil to decide whether he wants to become a real pitcher or not. The Yankees have banged the importance of the change up to him over and over again – and yet he refuses to throw it (except in desperation at the end of last year) in real game situations. I think actually the curve is more important than the change, but Phil seems to have given up on that pitch. This is why I thought coming into this year (based on last year) that Phil was nothing more than a middle of the rotation starter at best.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:12 pm

   I somewhat agree with you.

   I never really have seen Hughes as more than a number 2 at the high end and a solid 3 or 4 on the low side. He reminds me of John Lackey without the grit that made Lackey who he was as a pitcher. Even when the Phil Hughes hype train originally rolled in I was getting beaten down for not thinking he was the next home grown ace everyone wanted. I actually think he got overhyped a lot for that reason, and when he doesn’t live up to the overblown expectations he gets ripped.

   I believe Hughes has what it takes to be the number 3 starter in the Yankee rotation for years but he needs to work on things, maybe the least important of which is the velocity.

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6. Duh, Innings! says:

   May 2, 2011 at 9:17 pm

   Batting average is worthless huh? Then why are most baseball writers, bloggers, and commenters going on and on and on and on about Jeter’s BA wayyy more than his OBP? You’re telling me .200 BA and .400 OBP is good? It is not good, it’s shit, because when that “OBP machine” comes to bat with 2 outs in the bottom of the ninth and a man on 3B and his team is down 1-0, there is a 20% chance he will drive in the run with a hit and an 80% chance he won’t. I’ll take the .300 BA, .330 OBP guy over him anyday of the week.

   I could care less about A-Rod’s OBP and never compared it to Jeter’s let alone even mentioned A-Rod’s OBP, so I’ve no idea what you’re talking about in regards to that. So what A-Rod’s OBP is .389 coming into this game? He has 18 RBI. If he didn’t drive in a run tonight or tomorrow night, that’s only 18 RBI through 27 games / the first sixth of the season and a 108 RBI pace. That’s a nice RBI end total for most players, but he is being paid to drive in 120 or more RBI, and that 12 or more RBI could give the Yankees x amount more wins.

   A-Rod is not being paid $30M a year or around that to get on base / post a high OBP, he is being paid to hit at I think a .300 BA or better – at least three hits out of every ten at-bats – so there goes your BA is worthless argument. The higher A-Rod’s BA, the more chances he has at driving in runs.

   To put BA vs. OBP argument to rest, let’s say A-Rod is batting .324, Cano .294 BA going into the final game of this season which the Yankees have to win to make the postseason. Men on 2B and 3B, 2 outs in the ninth inning, the Yankees are down 1-0, A-Rod at the plate. If he makes an out, season over. Do you want him to draw a walk or get a hit? You want him to get a hit and drive in the tying and possible go ahead and winning run from 2B. Who gives a flying fuck about him getting on base? So he draws a walk, big deal. That’s not what he’s being paid to do – get on base so the next guy has to do his job which is to drive in runs. Say A-Rod draws a walk. Who between him and Cano is more likely to collect a hit? A-Rod cuz he’s batting 30 points higher than Cano. By drawing a walk to load the bases, you only pass along the burden of driving in a run to the next batter. What if you took a 2-0 pitch down the middle you should’ve creamed then drew a four-pitch walk? You hurt the team. You should’ve hit that gift.

   Look at Brett Gardner right now. Early in the season he had a “walk me, walk me” approach at the plate. He stuck his bat out to imply a bunt or drop one too much. He had a “get on base” instead of “get a hit” mentality and he failed miserably. Now, he’s being more aggressive at the plate and has upped his BA and people are saying he’s coming around.

   It’s all about driving in runs.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 pm

   If you think OBP is less important than BA then it proves to me what I have thought since you started posting… Obvious troll is obvious.

   Just to answer your hypothetical question, I want him to get on base, I really don’t care how because it keeps the lineup moving. It’s not about hits or walks, it’s about getting on base and letting the guy behind you have his chance.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:36 pm

   BTW Alex is currently hitting .260 right now after his 0 for, Vlad Guerrero is hitting .269, by your logic Vlad is having a better year.

   .269/.269/.398
   .260/.380/.570

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7. Duh, Innings! says:

   May 2, 2011 at 9:27 pm

   A-Rod just weakly popped up after Teixiera drew a walk.

   The OBP is more important than BA guy says “Damn! A-Rod didn’t get on base!”

   The BA is more important than OBP guy says “Damn! A-Rod didn’t get a hit and move Teixiera to 2B or 3B or drive in Teixiera.”

   Who’s the idiot? The OBP is more important than BA guy.

   Btw time for Teixiera to be dropped to fifth / switch places with Cano because he’s too damn slow to bat third. When’s the last time he scored from 1B on a double? Now the Yankees need ANOTHER hit to drive in a run. The Yankees crap out again. They deserve to lose this game if they do. Another solid starting pitching performance wasted if they do.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:28 pm

   So Teixeira drew a walk to get on base? Yet no one yelled he didn’t get a single?

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   Moshe Mandel Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 pm

   OBP generally correlates better with scoring runs than batting average does. So you can come up with all of these little scenarios, but it won’t change that.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:37 pm

   Thank you. I’m done now, broke my own rule about feeding the troll… I hate when I do that.

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   Duh, Innings! Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 pm

   I’m not trolling, I’m speaking my mind. One you cannot counter with civil discourse, so I will no longer feed the real troll: YOU.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 10:39 pm

   Civil discourse? When did I lace everyone of my posts with profanity?

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   Duh, Innings! Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 pm

   Um, little scenarios? These are common occurances (having to drive in a run down to your last out of the game or you lose) and are rooted in reality unlike your OBP, Sabrmetrics, and stats drivel.

   Look at the top of the eighth. Martin was on 3B with one out. Nunez and Jeter had to drive him in to take the lead and get Soriano or Chamberlain in there for the eighth inning. If one draws a walk for .500 OBP between them in 2 PA, that still doesn’t drive in a run. If both draw walks for 1.000 OBP between them in 2 PA, that still doesn’t drive in a run. Bases loaded means a possible force out at home or inning-ending double play.

   You drive in the fucking runner on 3B with an out or a hit, case fucking closed. Nunez and Jeter drawing walks means jack shit if Granderson grounds sharply to 2B for a force out for one out and Teixiera strikes out. Or there’s a wild pitch or passed ball but Martin is thrown out at homeplate.

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   Moshe Mandel Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 10:02 pm

   So batting average is rooted in reality, but not OBP?Teams with better OBP’s score more runs. Teams with better batting averages do not necessarily score more runs. Look it up. That is reality.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 10:43 pm

   It’s really not worth it Mo, there’s no actual conversation taking place because for there to be a conversation both sides have to be open to taking in the others information. Not one side blurting profanity laced tirades no matter the situation, every single game.

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8. Duh, Innings! says:

   May 2, 2011 at 9:43 pm

   No, but a single is better than a walk because it could turn into Teixiera on 2B if the ball is misplayed. Name me the last time a guy wound up on 2B after he drew a walk. How ’bout this? If he hits the ball and it drops, maybe he winds up on 2B, 3B, or back at HP (figure it out.)

   He’s another one not being paid to get on base.

   You would be screaming, pulling out your hair if the Yankees drew three walks to lead off an inning then made three outs and scored no runs the first three innings. Hey, 9 walks in 18 plate appearances for a .500 OBP, man.

   You’d be happy as a pig in shit if A-Rod hit a solo homerun, that was the only Yankee hit, the Yankees drew no walks, and the Yankees hung on to win 1-0. That’s a team .036 BA, .000 OBP for the night, man. True wayyy more due to pitching than hitting, but the hitting was one run better.

   Oh btw Nunez failed to drive in Martin with an out much less a hit. Did you want him to get on base with a walk or drive in a run with a hit.

   You lose.

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm

   Yes, every single person in the lineup getting a hit every single at bat would be the best choice, but this is baseball and that can’t happen. You increase your odds of someone getting a hit with runners on scoring runs by getting on base and letting the guy behind you drive you in. The goal of any team is to get On Base at a high Percentage so that they have a higher chance of driving in runs. OBP takes into account every way of getting on base, Avg on focuses on getting a hit.

   However I assume you already know this, and I don’t actually believe you believe anything you are saying.

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9. Betsy says:

   May 2, 2011 at 9:45 pm

   T.O.Chris, did you see Phil in the minors? He dominated, so what did you see then that made you think he was not really going to be a frontline starter?

   I don’t want to say he doesn’t have grit – I’ve seen him pitch well without great stuff – but I will concede that he’s hardly at his best in big games (though the Sox and Rays games near the end of the season were big).

   I just read on Lohud that the Yankees are not going to have him fly to Detroit, but instead he will fly to NY and they will determine what to do with him then. I think that’s a mistake. Let the kid rejoin the team…………..

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   T.O. Chris Reply:
   May 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

   Unfortunately I don’t get to watch much minor league action for the Yankees out here in Texas, but I was talking strictly from his first appearances in the big leagues on. I have watched him from the beginning, I still remember my disappointment when he had to leave early in Texas with his no-hiitter because of injury.

   However to answer your question he has never had the control you look for in a major league front end starter, and he has also never showed the belief in himself necessary to elevate your game to the next level. Being a starting pitcher is the hardest thing in the world of sports in my opinion because at the end of the day you only have yourself out on the mound. Sure you have a team behind you, and the manager and coaches can come out to see you but it starts and ends with you. One of the biggest hold ups in AJ Burnett’s career has always been his mental approach, and it’s something he will tell you himself.

   In 2009 I saw a pretty big step in Hughes’ development when he went to the pen, he started to believe in his stuff, and that cause his self confidence to go up. He had a “classic Hughes game” in Baltimore shortly before being sent to the pen that year where he allowed a run or two early on and you could see him wilt, he ended up not making it out of the 3rd and left with some 5 or 6 runs on the board in a situation which should have been limited to 2 or 3. He didn’t have that confidence, he goes to the pen, his velocity upticks, he starts blowing people away and I really saw his whole mentality change. You could see confidence on the hill, he stood tall, and even when he gave up a hit he at least looked like he knew it didn’t matter because the next batter was going to strikeout. A down side to this was that his control within the zone got worse, and he pretty much gave up on the curve that year. Since that point his curve has graded out lower and lower, and he took a very similar approach to starting out on the mound as he did when relieving. Once his velocity fell to the level he is at now he couldn’t pitch the same and never adjusted.

   Ultimately I see Hughes as a pitcher who has a hard time making adjustments, he finds a winning formula and wants to stick with it. The problem with this is that batters make adjustments and figure out your game, if you can’t them make your own counter adjustments your in trouble. The pitchers who do this the best become aces, the ones who struggle fall somewhere below that.

   His stuff is decent, his confidence has gotten better but not great (the playoffs have shown us that old insecure Phil can come out quick), and I don’t think he makes adjustments very well on the fly. To me he just has always come across as a 2/3 starter for his future, I have taken flack on it in the past and expect to again in the future because people love Hughes but I don’t hate the kid and I wish him the best of luck as a Yankee starter.

   Hopefully this convoluted answer gives you some insight into my thinking haha.

   I don’t think he should be flying with the team. Yeah he’s part of the club and what not but he can get much more out of staying at home, sleeping in his own bed, and working on whatever they want in New York than he can flying around, getting jet lag, and watching the game in the dugout.

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10. Betsy says:

    May 2, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    TO Chris, thanks for your thoughts. I thought Phil acquitted himself pretty well as a starter in 2009. The pen helped him in terms of confidence, but I also think it hindered the development of his curve – and it made him fall too much in love with his FB. I do think your comment about him finding a formula and sticking with it is accurate; his big flaw is refusing to leave his comfort zone. The only way to improve a pitch is to throw it – and he won’t throw his change when it counts. He had a nice one at the end of 2010 ST, but then he ignored it. He’s also always tinkering with his curve.

    Phil is a great kid (but I can’t get past him coming into camp overweight) and he’s very easy to root for, but I generally agree with you (plus, I don’t think his stuff is that great). I’m glad he’s ok, though.

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