BREAKING: Jesus Montero traded for Michael Pineda
Bye-bye, Jesus.
Well, we got that number two starter. From Sports Illustrated:
The New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners have agreed to a deal that will send Jesus Montero out west and Michael Pineda to the Bronx, according to several reports.
A blockbuster to say the least and certainly one that will divide Yankee-fan opinion for quite some time. , 22, a future MVP-candidate in the making swapped for , 22, a future Cy Young-candidate in the making towards the end of an otherwise uneventful off-season. Crazy.
Let’s start with the good here: Pineda is a major upgrade over every member of the Yankees prospective 2012 rotation with the exception of CC Sabathia. The massive right-hander has some of the best stuff in the league and is under team control for the next five years (cheap for the next two at the very least). In 171 innings last season he pitched to a 3.74 ERA and 3.42 FIP, striking out 173 and walking only 55. He provides the Yankees with a legitimate 1-2 punch in the near future, an heir to Sabathia in the long-term.
Also heading to New York will be 19-year-old Venezuelan right-hander Jose Campos. Like Pineda, Campos has front of the rotation stuff and at just 18, dominated A-ball last season to the tune of a 2.32 ERA and 6.54 K/BB ratio in 14 starts. He should enter next season as the systems fourth or fifth best prospect with Montero out of the picture.
The downside, of course, is moving Montero. The top prospect in the system for the past few seasons and a ballplayer most scouts see as a potential impact middle of the order bat. It was hard not to get excited about a full season of Jesus in 2012 and now with him headed to Safeco, there is a hole at the DH position in the short-term, a gaping hole in this teams offensive core in the long-term. While the Yankees were perhaps not such a great fit for Montero at the big league level, it still hurts giving up a player with his kind of upside.
will also be headed to Seattle. By all accounts a future big league starter, Noesi was somewhat lost in the shuffle with Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances, but the loss of depth will be felt.
At face value, this is a fairly even swap of talent, one that could quite easily help both teams, New York in need of pitching and the Mariners in need of offense. The two players the same ages, one under control for 5 years, one under control for 6, with similarly massive ceilings. In the short term, the Yankees get the second starter they needed, the Mariners get another offensive piece. In the long term, who knows? The addition of Jose Campos makes this trade look substantially better though, and ultimately I’d caution Yankees fans to give this package some time before mourning too heavily the lost of Montero.
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Upsetting to lose Montero, trade seems like a fair one on both sides.
They shore up one weakness by trading a prospect that could have helped their other problem. Montero could have potentially fixed the need for a young middle of the order bat, and fixed their weakness which was an potential impact starter.
Agreed. But with Granderson, Cano, Gardner, and Teixeira in their primes one need was more pressing than the other and that showed.
Gardner is still very much a slap hitter. Teixeira has posted back-to-back subpar offensive seasons.
Word is brewing that Carlos Pena might be headed to the Bronx. Not sure if he’s as good a hitter as Montero, but, Pena’s power numbers should still hold. At least i hope so.
I AM STUNG BY THIS TRADE…MUST MEAN THEY MAY HAVE SOMEONE FOR A.J. BURNOUT OR HUGHES GOES TO THE PEN OR BOTH..
I was as big a fan of Jesus Montero as anybody, but this could end up being a deal that I and we end up liking just fine. I have concerns about the not-too-distant future of the offense, but as Alex suggested above, the Yanks don’t have to worry about that JUST yet. Furthermore, they may not even be finished yet. I don’t know if Prince is going to make a splash in the Yankees rumors, but there is more flexibility in the offensive puzzle and they could be eyeing a follow up move. Who knows?
Jesus, we hardly knew you. Buena suerte senor. I’ll always wonder what might have been.
I’m a bit stunned but it sounds like a fair deal and it’ll be exciting to see how Pineda does with a real team behind him. He sure does miss a lot of bats.
That Ninja Cash – there ain’t no flies on him.
Friday the 13th …
My head is spinning right now and i havent had a sip. I’m saddened with Montero’s departure, but as a Yankee fan I root for the pinstripes and I can move beyond my disappointment in losing a hitter as promising as Montero.
KURODA is a one-year stop-gap. PINEDA is the future of this yankees rotation. No doubt about it. Perhaps Cashman has another move up his sleeve to add a quality bat.
Probably the best case scenario for Jesus Montero return. After so many years of watching him, it’s going to be tough seeing Jesus in another uniform.
I think the Yankees are now undeniably the best team in the AL. They have the best bullpen in the league, plus a top-3 offense and arguably top-3 rotation.
Also:
Burnett is toast. I’m willing to bet that Cashman already has that salary dump figured out. It might even be in the works right now, but waiting for Selig’s approval on the money.
I’m sure he has at least some idea of what he wants to do about DH.
Could just sign Wilson Betamit. He wouldn’t cost much and signing him would solve 2 problems. He would be the backup behind ARod and him and Andruw Jones can platoon at DH.Bettamit mashes righties. This would also allow Gardners glove to stay in the field also.
Makes a ton of sense. Betemit mashes righties. Andruw mashes lefties. ARod could spend some time at DH. I had him pegged as a backup infield option but he could have more of a role with Montero out of the picture.
I like that a lot.
Another suggestion: A.J. Burnett for Carlos Lee.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/carlos-lee-is-there-anything-left/
Maybe not.
Is Pineda a 2 pitch pitcher? Did he feast on weak competition in Seattle? His home road splits are significant. I can’t help but feel uneasy about this right now. Haven’t given myself time to sit down and think about this yet…woah
Rookie season. He’s got the stuff, plus a strong minor league track record. And regardless of park, he put up a 3.42 FIP.
Thats good to hear. And we got Campos which is kind of vindication for giving up Viscaino from what I hear about him. Also we still have Warren, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Betances, and Banuelos. This free’s up so much for the Yankees in the future if Pineda pans out. Really hope this kid develops into a true ace.
The home/road ERA split looks bad but in terms of FIP/xFIP it’s 3.62/3.26 and 3.51/3.55 (home/road) so not so bad at all. Some of his peripherals (BB/9, K/BB, HR/9) were also better on the road than at home. I don’t know what accounts for the differences or how meaningful they are but I don’t think it’s at all clear that he’s purely a product of Safeco.
I hate this trade. We gave up a hitter for a pitcher who gives up way too many flyballs. Plus threw in a pitcher with current potential for one who is at least 3 years away from being major league ready.
Not happy with this trade. I understand we didn’t have a perfect fit positionally for Montero,but you find room for that kind of talent. Pineda and his fly ball tendencies scare the crap out of me in the bronx, and he does have a history of elbow issues and his heavy reliance on the slider concerns me about his durability too, despite his size and build. Campos is interesting, but he is still very young. Overall, I am not that pleased but will eagerly watch to see how it turns out.
I love it! I knew Cashman was looking for a trade but I never thought we could pry lose Pineda. He’s a top of the rotation young quality arm, one that could be an ace in the very near future for quite some time. His stuff is electric and he showed last year that he really knows how to use it. I am ecstatic about this trade! Between this and the Kuroda signing our rotation is now a true strength for this team, both in terms of quality and depth for the the first time in a long time.
Pineda is one of those dreaded “inverted W” pitchers. Does this mean arm trouble in the future?
That’s never been proven to mean injuries. Pitchers like Prior and Strasburg had/have the inverted W and suffered injuries, yet many pitchers with an inverted W have never suffered an injury. Are we suppose to believe they were simply lucky?
At 23 with years of team control left, you can live with an inverted W.
Seems like most Marinters fans are more upset at losing Campos than Pineda. In the long term the development of Campos and Noesi may determine the true value of this deal.
Really trying to guard my optimism. This is such an interesting trade. A straight up trade of two young super talents. Yeah Campos is supposed to be terrific. If Pineda and Montero both hit their ceilings id rather have Pineda. Yankees will always have hitters. Is this kid the real deal? He did fade a lot down the stretch and all i hear about is fastball/slider. I just don’t know that much about him.
You should love him with both of your name being Michael P. and all haha. Lame I know, had to do it though.
I watched his first maybe 10 starts last year, just because I have the baseball package and young flamethrowers really intrigue me. I loved what I saw. When he went against the Yankees I was very impressed, the final line didn’t do justice to how impressed I was with his ability to go against a veteran lineup at such a young age.
He is a fastball slider guy, but he does posses the start of a change or split. His slider is an extremely nasty pitch though, it varies in its break as well so at times it looks like a curve or slurve. Fangraphs has him throwing cutter, change (I could swear I saw a split grip), and 2-seam, though he only throws them 4.7, 2.9, and 2.1% of the time respectively. Though Sabathia was mostly a fastball/slider guy when he came up as well, and he now posses one of the best changes in the game. The ability to learn from Felix Hernandez for a year, and now from Sabathia probably doesn’t get any better from a young pitcher’s perspective.
He has a ridiculous ability to miss bats, he’ll probably get better when he learns to pitch to a little more contact and cut back on striking guys out. Mixing in his 2-seamer and cutter more will certainly be a necessary adjustment to make in Yankee Stadium.
The stuff is never going to be a question mark, and he has true ace potential. He just has to continue developing and be right between the ears and he has a bright future.
A number 2 starter is more valuable than a DH at just about any skill level. I simply don’t believe in Montero as a catcher, and he couldn’t even begin to learn first base until Teixeira leaves in 5 years. I actually love this deal for both sides, this could certainly be a deal in a similar mode to the Granderson trade where everyone comes away happy in the end.
I think Pineda is about as can’t miss as you are going to get. He’s got ace stuff and advanced command. He’s huge in a good way. Said to be very composed and competitive – a great fit for the environment in that regard.
On the surface, he did fade quite a bit in the second half, but his underlying numbers stayed relatively steady. It’s also worth pointing out that he jumped about 30 innings last year. That’s a pretty safe number but your bound to feel some fatigue if you aren’t used to the workload.
He should also be a decent fit for Yankee stadium. Yes, he’s a flyball pitcher and a right hander, but he induces a tremendous amount of weak contact, a well above average rate of infield flies, and he misses a ton of bats. He’s also nearly as good against left handers as right handers.
When you’re talking about a 22-year-old pitcher, there are going to be questions involved, but he showed last season that he’s already a second starter and I think he has the skill set to eventually become one of the best pitchers in baseball. There are few weaknesses in his game and just about anything that looked like a weakness last season appears to be a small-sample size fluke on closer inspection.
Well said. He could very well develop into our own version of Felix Hernandez. As I said if he just converts some of those strikeouts into ground balls he should be able to correct some of the fly ball woes for Yankees stadium. Plus as you mentioned, when you miss that many bats being a fly ball pitcher isn’t as worrisome.
I was upset when the Yankees didn’t land Latos, but considering what the Reds gave up for Mat I think we stole Pineda. Plus we still have Banuelos, Betances, and Sanchez, as well as receiving Campos, in case we want to make a run at Joey Votto if the Reds decide they can’t re-sign him before he hits free agency. Though that will be in a couple of years.
Haha actually I can appreciate really corny jokes. Its tough to have spent all this time convincing myself that Montero was at worst Edgar Martinez or at best Miguel Cabrera (I wont say Piazza because I too value defense above all else in a catcher). Now to have this new kid whose still got question marks its making me uneasy. Either way this offseason the most important thing for now and the future of the Yankees was to obtain a young ace which is why I coveted Yu Darvish so badly. If this kid develops into a true ace which from the little iv seen he has the talent to do, I am more than happy regardless of what happens with Montero.
We still have Austin Romine, JR Murphy, and Gary Sanchez who is a younger Montero. And we traded Noesi who isn’t better than Betances or Banuelos, for a kid who may become a future ace himself. Is Noesi better than Warren or Phelps? Slightly I guess. So we traded from a position of strength and obtained a position of need. If Pineda realizes his potential than its a win for the Yanks
I for one am glad we no longer have to deal with people making Montero out to be Martinez or Cabrera. He isn’t that caliber of player, he simply doesn’t walk enough, or control the strikezone enough to be that kind of bat. Montero is much closer to Cano with more power and more K’s than he is either of those two players.
As I said even if he develops into a strong number 2 starter he’s still likely more valuable than Montero as a DH or first baseman.
I think Montero either has to stick at catcher, or Pineda has to get hurt and bust out for us to lose this deal honestly.
Probably true, but even if it isn’t the Yankees need Pindea more than they do Montero, and I really, really liked Montero and hate losing him. Bottom line – the Yankees had to do this.
Edgar Martinez was really, really good.
And even that might be underselling him some.
A career .312/.418/.515 triple slash line, 309 career HRs, and a career 69.9 WAR. He is the best DH of all time
Montero doesn’t posses anywhere near that kind of on base skill and likely never will.
I can sometimes be overly optimistic.
You can also argue that even Andy Pettitte was never a true ace pitcher his career was more valuable than the best DH of all time. Now I’m not saying that Pineda is Pettitte, but it just goes to show you that even a DH as great as Edgar wasn’t as valuable as a top of the rotation starter.