In the wake of Posada-gate this weekend, more details are emerging of exactly what went down, and what the Yankee response would have been. I’ll start with a
Bottom line on the whole Posada thing: This episode will accelerate his departure from the team unless he starts producing at the plate ASAP.
Buster appeared on the Mike and Mike show on Monday morning and said this (listen)
Mike Golic-”If he doesn’t (start hitting) how is this going to end?”
Buster Olney-”He’s going to get released…Posada has to hit very soon to keep his spot on this team.”
Buster is an excellent reporter, as good as it gets when it comes to Yankee sources. He’s one of the few writers who I trust implicitly, knowing he’s not , an or the who looks to inflame even the most innocuous bits of information. Following the Yanks and Buster for as long as I have (he used to be the Yankee beat writer for the NY Times) I have a pretty good idea who his main source on the Yankees is, and it doesn’t get any better when it comes to baseball matters.
Next, we heard yesterday from Bill Madden that Jorge, in the midst of his fit of frustration on Saturday afternoon, asked the Yanks to cut him. Here’s the story:
In the heat of his anger and frustration Saturday night, Yankee icon told general manager Brian Cashman amid a flood of F-bombs that he not only wanted out of the No. 9 spot in the Yankee batting order – he wanted out of the Yankees, too, according to team sources.
This strikes me as the Yankee brass laying the groundwork for precisely this contingency. If they go ahead and cut him, they will sell it to their fan base as ‘giving him what he asked for’ since he made it abundantly clear just how unhappy he is this weekend. Saturday’s incident will also give them some cover, where they will argue ‘he quit on his team in a huge series against the Red Sox’. Both of which are true, but make no mistake this is something the Yanks have prepared for all along. The blowup on Saturday is just going to make it easier for them to do from PR standpoint. At the WFAN Breakfast, Brian Cashman referred to Jorge needing to hit, or they’ll find someone else. As the team’s DH, you can do the math on that one.
It’s not something that will happen right away, Buster Olney went on to say that a decision will be made sometime around July, when the trade market heats up and they have a good idea of what’s going on in their farm system. Thankfully, in his first night back in the lineup last night, Jorge looked much better. He laced a long, hard hit double to deep Right and smacked a single to Right. But as we saw with Jeter’s recent 2 HR game against Texas, don’t get too excited over one good game. He’s still batting just .179, and if that doesn’t change he’s not going to stick around. Shields is a terrific pitcher, but he’s not a hard thrower. Anyone should hit his mistakes, even a player who’s past his expiration date.
If it comes down to him being released, I think it’s a ham fisted and cold-hearted move on the part of the front office. We all know the Yanks never wanted to give him that 4th year, and resented the way he used the Mets as a bargaining chip. But it’s petty to let that factor in to the 2011 decisions. I’ve never been the biggest Posada fan, but there’s no denying what a fixture he’s been with the team for the past 17 years. There are better ways to do this with a player who’s meant so much to the franchise. You could simply DL him with one of his old, lingering injuries and let him finish the season with the team, particularly his buddy Derek. It also sends a shock wave of baseball mortality throughout that clubhouse, which could very well be detrimental to the team’s performance. But Jorge himself may prefer to be released. We’ve heard rumblings he hopes to play beyond this year, so catching on with another team as their backup Catcher could give him a chance to establish some value heading into the off season.
So let me finish with the question I posed at the outset. How would you react if the Yankees release Jorge Posada in the middle of this season?
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Now I’m curious who you think Buster’s source is…
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 7:49 am
The head of Baseball ops. I can almost hear Brian’s voice in some of Buster’s quotes. There’s stuff that Brian will say publicly and other things he will give to a few insiders, and I think Buster is his main guy.
I also think Michael Kay has Randy Levine’s cell phone # on speed dial. The tone of his inside info is very combative, very loyal to ownership, which are trademarks of Levine. He kept telling is radio audience the Yanks were in on Soriano when Brian was denying it publicly. If you follow this stuff closely and know the personalities involved, you don’t have to be a genius to figure it out.
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“He’s still batting just .179, and if that doesn’t change he’s not going to stick around.”
Just a note on that: At the end of April, he had a .132 AVG and .244 OBP; his May .275/.383 has brought that line up to .179/.287.
His SLG is still a problem and it’s not like he’s on a tear or anything, but I think we do need to recognize that he’s been ok lately, and that includes one particularly bad hitless stretch from May 4-7. When a guy starts with numbers as crazy-low as Jorge did this season we have to look at his overall numbers in that context. It’s unrealistic to believe his overall numbers are going to look good, but he can still be productive and keep his numbers moving in the right direction, at least.
(Fingers-crossed. I’m not a particularly big Posada fan nor do I want the Yankees to sacrifice wins all season just to be nice and let him play, but I’d love to see him perform to an acceptable level and not have the end of his career be such a sad event.)
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Duly noted. I should have mentioned he’s been better lately.
And I agree on both counts about Posada. I’ve never loved him as a player, but would still be very sad to see his Yankee career end so unceremoniously. I just can’t see cutting a Core 4 player, there’s got to be a better way to do this.
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My guess was Cashman as well. I hope Posada can break out of it and do at least OK for the rest of this season and then retire. That’d be the optimal outcome, I think.
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“If it comes down to him being released, I think it’s a ham fisted and cold-hearted move on the part of the front office.”
I disagree. I think if he continues to suck it will be a pragmatic solution to dismal production on a team that has a fan base that demands contention every year. It is easy for fans to get all emotional about their favorite players of the past, but Posada hasn’t done the Yankees any favors over the years – he has been MORE than generously rewarded financially for his contributions, and if he is no longer useful to the club, they have the right – no the RESPONSIBILITY – to cut him.
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 8:29 am
I’m not saying he should play if he can’t help the team, just that there are other ways to do this. Especially for such a storied player. But as I said in the piece, Jorge may prefer to be cut, it will give him a chance to catch on elsewhere. He gets paid either way, and has zero trade value.
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I have a question which is off topic but I think appropriate in light of the offensive struggles of the Yankees DH and Yankees offensive struggles in general.
Why aren’t the Yankees considering calling up Jorge Vazquez from the minors? As we all know he had an excellent spring training and YTD in Triple A he’s been lights out. I don’t understand the reluctance to call him up. It’s nice that the Yankees are or want to be loyal to Posada but given his circumstances and his performance it would seem to be a no brainer.
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Ben Vinutti Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 8:29 am
Vazquez is like Dave Kingman- all or nothing with a ton of strikeouts and no glove. He could be a solution at DH but strikesout too much.
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UYF1950 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Have you noticed the number of Posada’s strikeouts the past 2 season 100 each year on about 450 PA. This years he’s well on his way to striking out over 125 times if he has the same number of PA. I say the Yankees should give the 29 year old a shot at least it looks like he would/could generate some offense.
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 8:31 am
Maybe they will, they just want to see more from Posada. It is still just the middle of May, I wouldn’t make that move for another month or so.
But even if it gets to that point, I don’t think Posada’s replacement will be Vazquez, or Montero for that matter. When Chavez comes back in a few weeks, they’ll use him and Jones in a platoon. Use a proven bat instead of a rookie trying to find himself in a pennant race,
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T.O. Chris Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
I like Vazquez as a DH against left handed pitching. It’s true he doesn’t walk, and Ks a ridiculous amount of the time. But if he could place some right handed power in the lineup against lefties you could deal with the strikeouts. I don’t care to see him playing first, unless he just absolutely as to, but giving him a limited DH role can’t hurt. Unless the Yankees simply would rather have those days open for Alex and Jeter to DH.
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It’s a big pill to swallow with the remaining money his is owed (but since when do the yankees care about money) and also to treat a core four member that way. but if he continues to struggle i would like to see him be a role player first and have someone else take over as DH ie JoVA or Montero.
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
The contract is no concern, its a sunk cost. They have to pay it no matter what. In the last year of a deal, your budget is set and you’re not married to the player anymore. You just want to get production out of that roster spot at this point.
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BTW-I apologize for the 1st draft on this piece. Loaded with sentences that just didn’t read well at all. As you can tell, I jumped around quite a bit while writing this.
And yes, I did proofread the thing. Somehow it doesn’t quite show up the same way on wordpress as it does when published. Or maybe the coffee hadn’t quite kicked in yet.
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I wouldn’t be pleased with the Yankees. for one, I think he’ll turn it around, but I believe he deserves a longer leash given his career.
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Cutting him would be foolish.
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Cris Pengiuci Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 11:40 am
While the Yamkees can afford to keep him around as the 25th player (both financially and from a team depth/performacne persective), they don’t have to. Best case scenario is he starts hitting. Next would be that they come to some sort of mutualy agreement on his departure that saves face for both sides. A straight out cut of him hurst the orgamization, but sends a strong message to Jeter. Option 2 sends a message to Jeter as well, without antagonizing the fan base.
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I’m a diehard Yankees fan have been since Ike was President. But there comes a time in every professional athletes career when it’s time to hang it up. Posada parlayed a great 2007 season the best season of his career into a 4 year contract. Since then he hasn’t even come close to playing a full season. The most games he’s appeared in these last 4 years is 120. Except for a slight uptick in 2009 his numbers have been in decline. While it’s nice to want to turn the other cheek and give him more of an opportunity to turn his season around the chances of that happening for a 39 year old catcher with his wear and tear on it in reality are very, very slim. The team comes first and should always be uppermost in fans and managements minds. Posada’s had a good career it’s time for someone else to have a chance.
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Steve S. Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 9:07 am
You bring up an important point. From the FO perspective, they got very little return on that last contract. They probably feel like he owes them, not the other way around.
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With all the talk about Posada’s numbers being so poor, if you look at the split vs. RHP you’ll see 313/466/779. Not awful, in fact, it dwarfs the same embarassing split of the leadoff hitter, 279/277/556. But Jorge is the problem, even though you face RHP 75% of the time?
Give Posada the DH ABs vs. RHP. Call up Montero soon give him the DH ABs vs. LH, and get rid of Cervelli. Is Montero really that much worse behind the plate?
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UYF1950 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Keith, I think your numbers are a little misleading. Look at his numbers with runners on, risp and risp with 2 outs.
Batting Average/OBP/SLG/OPS
First with Runners On: .174/.296/.457/.753
With RISP: .130/.333/.174/.507
With RISP w/2Outs: .083/.313/.167/.479
None of those numbers are good.
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Keith Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 9:42 am
UYF – not sure how those numbers are misleading. It was specific to setting a lineup based on opposing pitcher. Posada’s numbers vs. RHP are not bad.
I’m not advocating Posada as the RHH DH. Simply depicting that he still has some use as a LHH. The splits you are noting are in how many ABs? 10-20 at most? Also including ABs as RHH, correct?
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UYF1950 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 10:02 am
They are his splits year to date (regardless of the pitcher). Certainly not a huge sample but relatively speaking it the same sample size as yours.
The reason I say your numbers are misleading isn’t because they are inaccurate. It’s because you seem to be advocating a platoon system for DH’ing. Posada against right handed pitchers and someone else against left handed pitchers. Seems to me to be a real waste of a roster spot. Why in the world would any team including the Yankees want to have a platoon system for the DH position. If a player can’t DH and he can’t play his defense position it’s time to make a change. While it may not be pleasant it’s inevitable. I’m sorry but that’s just the way I feel.
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Matt Imbrogno Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 11:01 am
The Yankees did the platoon DH thing in the second half last year with Berkman and Thames and it worked out pretty well.
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UYF1950 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 11:52 am
Matt, you must have been watching a different Berkman last year when he came over to the Yankees. During the regular season from the time he came over to the Yankees on July 31st I believe 36 or 37 games. He had 6 multi hit games. basically he had 7 good games out of the 36 or 37 regular season games he played for the Yankees. And his defense at 1st base in the few games he subbed for Tex were terrible.
His 1st Yankee game line :.242/.367/.430/.798
His last Yankee game line: .248/.368/.413/.781
Beside right now I think the Yankees would kiss the ground if Posada had those numbers and there nothing to write home about. Listen the bottom line is, is Posada the best the Yankees can do even within their own system. If it is then they should do nothing. If it isn’t then they need to make a change.
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T.O. Chris Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
It’s not about Montero being worse than Cervelli, it’s about getting Montero ABs daily and allowing him to continue catching. Once Montero gets called up he needs to play enough to warrant the call up, otherwise you are taking chances to learn while playing away from him.
I’d rather call up Vazquez to be the RH DH if the Yankees go that way, I believe he’s 29, and he’s not going to develop any further than he already is.
The only way I call up Montero to be the DH is if we cut Posada, or decide to somply stash him on the bench.
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Posada is a Yankee great and nothing will ever take that from him. I’d love to see him rebound and retire as a Yankee. However, I am concerned that he’s willing to leave the Yankees — mid-season especially. If he were asking for his release to get more playing time elsewhere, then I’d have no sympathy for him — goodbye. If he’s released for non-performance, I would be saddened but the team really needs to get younger.
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Who’s gonna pay a 39 yo catcher $13+mm? If he gets released I guess that leaves the door open for reneg. by another team?
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UYF1950 Reply:
May 18th, 2011 at 11:53 am
If he were to get released the Yankees are on the hook for his entire salary. Any team that wanted to sign him could in theory sign him for the league minimum.
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Great piece, Steve! Thoroughly enjoyed the read.
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This loyalty thing works both ways. The core four have been well compensated throughout their careers and should be grateful they played on so many good teams. No, I’m not Hal Steinbrenner lol but Saturdays episode was very childish on Posada’s part and has left a bad feeling. The Yanks have had it easy with departing players(Mantle and Mattingly) retired on their own. Only Bernie was a bit uneasy but his temperment was calm.
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i would say hip hip jorge.. he should make a deal for the amount left on the contract , the yanks have a nice send off,every body makes like they love each other..jorge day next year….but jorge may not be done with baseball, don’t be surprise if this guy still thinks and wants to play next year..just not as a yank. remember what he said the other day..i’m not in a slump
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