Cliff Lee has a point

21 Responses to Cliff Lee has a point

1. Steve S. says:

   March 12, 2011 at 8:08 am

   In summary, Derek Jeter not only single handedly killed every rally last year with his feeble ground balls, he cost us Cliff Lee as well.

   It’s all Derek’s fault /sarcasm

   Reply
2. Tim says:

   March 12, 2011 at 8:46 am

   Lee might have a better chance for a WS ring with the ageless Phillies but I doubt it. The Phillie pen sucks, offense is not what it was, how is Utley doing?

   The Yankees could have the last laugh here.

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   • Steve S. says:

     March 12, 2011 at 8:49 am

     We all know you can lose a few 1-0 an 2-1 games in October and find yourself quickly on the golf course. The Braves had a rotation for the ages for over a decade and had just 1 WS ring to show for it.

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3. T.O. Chris says:

   March 12, 2011 at 8:50 am

   I really don’t see how the Rangers are a better team than us this year without Lee (they have rotation questions too), and if he’s judging what the Rangers can do in the future and what we can do in the future I don’t think it’s a question we have the money and prospects to get better at any point. We have enough money to re-tool anytime we have to and we finally have one of the best systems in baseball, I like our chances of making the playoffs in the next 10 seasons better than those of the Rangers in that span if for no other reason with or without Lee we have more financial flexibility.

   At the end of the day Lee going to the Phillies is a good thing for us, he isn’t with the Rangers pitching against us multiple times a year, and we aren’t stuck a zombie like 40 year old Lee making 25 million dollars. Sure we aren’t as good a team this year as we would have been with him but (signing Lee) only adds to the problem he is talking about anyway, adding age to age doesn’t help make you younger it just takes away spots for young guys like Banuelos and Betances and forces you to trade young talent for major league aging prduction to cover up ageing decline.

   Going into last season I wasn’t real keen on signing Lee, I didn’t like how much a flyball pitcher he was, I didn’t care for his age and the contract we had to give him was always something I was against. When we almost traded for him I was upset because I didn’t (and still don’t) think he is worth a talent like Montero and I had sort of resigned myself to the fact that we were going to sign him. Obviously I warmed up to the idea watching him pitch in the playoffs but I didn’t go overboard because as good as he was against us was as stubborn and bad as he was against the Giants, he simply refused to start pitching out of the zone to a team hacking at every pitch and refusing to change gameplan cost him. He’s been a great pitcher over the last few years but I don’t think he will be as good going forward and at the end of the deal I think you would be getting less than Pettitte like production from a much higher paid pitcher.

   Also if we’re talking age how are Chase Utley’s knees? Last time I saw Jimmy Rollins he was a shell of his formerself because of his banged up wheels and Raul Ibanez, Placido Polanco and Roy Oswalt don’t really represent the future of the sport either haha. I’ll wait and see if they can hit before I give Lee the ring.

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   • bornwithpinstripes says:

     March 12, 2011 at 10:16 am

     i agree, i will add..texas was too hot..his back went out..his wife was heckled…like his family was the only family in every park in baseball that was heckled in history..just the ny yankee fans heckle..put on a yankee shirt just about any where in baseball and see what you hear about you and your family. that is part of fan rights from the first game ever..i also felt he was doing a greg maddux to us from day one..using us for leverage.. and may i add the dog ate his homework..the phillies will have many guys go down this year..just watch..they won’t make it to the big show..

     Reply
4. stunna485 says:

   March 12, 2011 at 9:17 am

   arod, jeter, posada and mo are the only aging players on our roster. arod is still a stud, jeter is still one of the best ss in mlb, mo is a god and posada can still hit with 1 year left on his deal.our outfield is young and fantastic. cano and tex are still in their prime and our cathching position is the deepest in mlb now. montero is coming soon and cc+ hughes+burnett+killer b’s= scary team in the not to distant future. by the way the phillies have the oldest team in mlb lol. one more thing, we have unlimited funds and a wealth of quality prospects for a future trade when needed. god were good!

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   • bornwithpinstripes says:

     March 12, 2011 at 10:17 am

     well said

     Reply
5. stunna485 says:

   March 12, 2011 at 9:22 am

   oh yeah we have the 2 best closers in the american league too. and a bunch of other good relievers. we will be the top team in baseball by the end of the season once again and cliff lee from podunk, arkansas can cry that he blew it not once…. not twice… but 3 times at a world title.

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6. oldpep says:

   March 12, 2011 at 9:45 am

   I’d like to second what T.O Chris said. These remarks are eerily similar to those made by other one-off WS teams since 2000.

   Do we get to snicker at the Rangers if they don’t make the play-offs this year and we do?

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   • bornwithpinstripes says:

     March 12, 2011 at 10:18 am

     oakland wins that division

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7. Yardisiak says:

   March 12, 2011 at 10:48 am

   The philles actually have more age then the Yankees with 14 players over 32 to the Yankees 8. I think people get caught up in the age of Jeter, Arod and Posada thinking they are still the Yankess top tier players but anyone who watches the Yankees knows the new core is Cano, Texiera and Sabathia. Now if only their salaries reflected that….

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   March 12, 2011 at 12:01 pm

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9. Dangerous Dean says:

   March 12, 2011 at 3:54 pm

   I made this point at Yankieest back in November and December. Yes, the Yankees are the best franchise in world history. Yes, they have more money than Bill Gates. Yes, their fans expect a Series victory every year.

   But going forward, I think that Texas has as good or better chance at a deep playoff run than New York does, for all the reasons Cliff mentioned:

   I know you guys love Jeter as much as you love your own moms, but his range is severely limited and he just doesn’t get to many grounders that most SSes do. Arod has been the best position player in baseball for a while, but in a non-steriod era, there is no guarantee that he will be as good in the near future as he is getting old (and he seems to underperform in the playoffs) and he has tons of drama off the field. Posada was having mammoth struggles controlling the running game, and while he will be a good DH this year, there isn’t a guarantee he will stay productive.

   Add those things to the fact that New York is a glitzy, tough place to play for many people who don’t like the pressure of the most vicious media in sports.

   Again, I am not saying that Texas will repeat as AL West champs, but when Lee had to decide whether to sign in Texas or NY he picked neither. And while that might make you mad, it was his coice to make.

   Reply
   • Larry Koestler says:

     March 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm

     Heh, Dean, if there’s one thing you should know about us — at least those of us from Yankeeist — it’s that we definitely don’t love Jeter anywhere near as much as we love our mothers. In fact, I might be the most anti-Jeter writer on the site — I would’ve happily let him walk after last season.

     Ultimately Lee can say whatever he wants about why he didn’t choose Texas or New York, but any reasoning involving the idea that one squad has a hypothetical better chance of future success regarding making the playoffs than the other is just silly. Yes, the Yankees have some aging players in the infield, but the rest of the team is actually decently on the young side, and he and Sabathia would’ve formed the most fearsome 1-2 punch in the AL. Both the Yankees and Texas are well-positioned to maintain future success, which is Lee’s line of reasoning rings hollow to me. At the end of the day he all he wanted was to go back to Philly, and he got what he wanted.

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   • T.O. Chris says:

     March 12, 2011 at 8:56 pm

     Yeah I don’t think you really have your finger on the hardcore fan pulse for the Yankees on this one. Most of us tolerate Jeter at this point and I was with Larry here in letting him go after last year.

     Also did you skip 2009 and not see Alex be the best player in the postseason out of any positional player we had? ALCS MVP.

     The fact that everyone keep coming back to Posada, Jeter and Arod are old shows you we aren’t that old… Posada is a DH and has 1 year left on his deal, if he hits he hits and if he doesn’t Cash has all but said he’ll trade for a replacement.

     Jeter isn’t the best at making the spectacular play anymore but 9/10 he makes the routine play and if he continues that for the next 2 oe 3 years we will be fine, I imagine at somepoint he ends up being the half time SS anyway and gets a bunch of off days and DH days so younger shortstops get playing time for defense.

     Alex is a concern going forward (because he’s locked up until 41) but if a possible 20-25 HR DH is your biggest concern going forward you’re probably doing OK.

     Texas doesn’t have the resources to compete year in and year out with the Yankees because no one but the Red Sox and maybe 1 or 2 other teams can, people act like the Yankees are going into some hole they can get out of. Last time that happened was 2008, we missed the playoffs, spent a bunch of money and won the WS in 2009. it’s not the best way to do buisness but if it came down to it we could do it again, unless there is a cap system (and there won’t be) the Yankees always have the ability to get out of a bad year or two quicker than most.

     If I told you 1 team would miss the playoffs 5 of the next 10 years and it was either the Yankees or Rangers you wouldn’t say it was the Yankees for that money reasons alone.

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10. Jason Fish says:

    March 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Is this Cliff Lee pushing the Yankees under the “bus”?

    Reply
    • T.O. Chris says:

      March 12, 2011 at 8:43 pm

      I think he want to make good with his own fans and smooth over relations in Texas honestly, the Yankees are the big bad empire throwing stones at us is par for the corurse. Coming out and saying I never really wanted to go to the Yankees or they were third just makes you look like you didn’t want money and you are the selfless one in baseball.

      Reply
11. smurfy says:

    March 13, 2011 at 12:07 am

    I will dearly miss watching the Cliff Lee carve up the Yankees’ plate for the next five years, but he will miss those rings. Rueben Amaro seems scary smart or lucky, but he traded Cliff away last year to recover a few prospects for the depleted system. Age is creeping up all around the fillies’ field,and how they gonna build up the bullpen?

    Aw, Cliff was just avoiding the AL East. He may think it puts the odds in his favor, but he’s missing all the fun.

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    • Steve S. says:

      March 13, 2011 at 8:53 am

      The age on the Phillies and their depleted farm don’t correlate. They have at least a 2-3 year window where they will be a WS favorite annually. By the time the Phils are getting long in the tooth, their recent draft picks that are in the lower levels of the minors will be ready to contribute. Every GM in baseball will sign up for that yesterday, including Brian Cashman.

      The farm system (or lack thereof) is the last thing anyone should care about. They’re a team for the ages, and a 3 year window can produce memorable groups like the Big Red Machine and late-90s A’s. In the age of free agency, 3 years is about as long as it gets.

      Reply
      • smurfy says:

        March 14, 2011 at 5:13 pm

        it’s the Phil’s offense that looks suspect: Rollins, a megabeast when spry, has had impaired wheels for two? years now; Utley seems to be impaired; the Flyin’ Hawaiian has been an unreliable spark plug the last two years. No Werth; Ibanez is aging. I like Howard, humble yet mighty, the question being whether he can pull the wagon without much help.

        And have heard their bullpen is weak, but I don’t claim to be knowledgable. Lidge can be good, but he seems prone to flaky implosion the last couple.

        Surely, their four horses are incomparable, and Blanton pitched very nicely ‘gainst the Yanks a Sunday or two ago. If they do make the playoffs, gimme those starters.

        They won the most games last year with mostly the same offensive weaknesses, so I cannot speak with conviction that they won’t do it again, but you can limp only so long.

        They seem the obverse of the Yanks: it will be interesting.

        Reply
12. SEM says:

    March 14, 2011 at 2:18 am

    I kind of like that the Yankees are the underdogs this time around. Not as much pressure on them.

    Reply