How Ivan Nova Got Here
I get the sense that Yankee fans are very comfortable with tonight’s starting pitcher matchup. Ivan Nova, a rookie, goes against Doug Fischer, and our nerves are pretty calm. After Ivan Nova’s 2011 season, its easy to be. He was nearly unhittable against the Tigers in Game 1, and just as strong all through September (5 starts, 2.67 ERA), plus, you know, all the intangibles people love to mention. He hasn’t quite been “the best Yankee starter all year” (Bobby Valentine has been repeating the line on ESPN lately in an alternate universe where C.C. Sabathia doesn’t exist), but he’s been close enough to inspire confidence.
The strange thing about this is that I don’t think that a single person watching Nova as a prospect over the years even began to dream that he would be this good. I remember being asked questions about Ivan Nova along the lines, “This guy throws 96 with movement. Is he a top prospect” and answering, “Pretty much everyone says he’s all fastball, no secondary pitches, and with poor control” numerous times. The Yankees obviously had a similar opinion of Nova at the time – they left him unprotected in the 2008 Rule V draft, alongside (and picked after) such brand names as Reegie Corona and Zach Kroenke. He failed to make the San Diego Padres team out of the bullpen, and returned to the Yankee farm system.
Even after the Rule V return, Nova didn’t particularly distinguish himself from other pitcher prospects. He had a solid year between AA and AAA, posting a 3.68 ERA with a solid-but-not-amazing 1.82 G/A out ratio, and characteristically mediocre walk and strikeout rates. He didn’t really stand out until 2010 with his 2.86 ERA and improved strikeout rate. Still, he came off as a talent pitcher with serious flaws in his secondary pitches. His fastball might make him an average starter who could eat innings, but I don’t think that anyone envisioned the success he’s had so far. He looks absolutely dominant at times on the mound, and I don’t think there’s any doubt that Nova can be even better than he was this season.
So, what mistake did we all make? All of us who love to follow prospects (and the Yankee brass themselves, who left him unprotected in 2008) thought that Nova would be disappointing despite the velocity, and we were wrong. I can think of three principle reasons:
- Velocity. Seriously, you can’t teach 95. It was sexy a few years ago (I counted myself among this group for a long time, though I was ) in the post-Moneyball era to disregard velocity. I think we’ve learned that sometimes you find your Chad Bradfords and C.J. Wilson’s, but for the most part you want to find your fireballers. Nova’s heavy, moving fastball is damn hard to make solid contact on, and its no coincidence that he draws comparisons to Chien-Ming Wang.
- Repeatability. If you don’t strike anyone out, walk batters at an average rate, and rely on weak-hit balls for outs, you are usually a mediocre pitcher. Every once in awhile, someone like Wang or Derek Lowe or Ivan Nova comes along and is able to use that model for success. The thing that I’ve noticed about Nova that was similar to Wang is that he is remarkably consistent. He pitches quickly, doesn’t hang a lot of fastballs, and pretty much throws the same stuff against a team every start. His curveball varies from start-to-start (it’s had some mighty nice bite to it over the last few starts), but everything else remains the same. As long as he keeps the ball down, throws enough strikes, and strikes out 50% more batters than Chien-Ming Wang did, he can keep putting together solid, quality starts.
- Coaching. Someone got to Ivan Nova and sharpened up his breaking pitches. He substituted out a changeup for a slider, and his curveball got much better, generating more swings and misses while maintaining his walk rate. That curve is a big reason why he’s so dominate right now, and I don’t think many people saw it coming a few years ago.
2 Responses to How Ivan Nova Got Here
Leave a Reply to T.O. Chris Cancel reply
-
LIKE TYA ON FACEBOOK
-
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
- Competitive Balance and the New CBA
- Eric Chavez Is Deep, Man
- Shiny New Thing Syndrome
- Click Up Your Heels; Santo Headlines Hall of Fame’s New “Golden Era” Ballot
- The Yankees in terms of trade value, from worst to first
- Expectations for Ivan Nova
- Go for Gio?
- Just how bad was AJ in 2011?
- Yanks open to extending Russell Martin
- Writers Wanted!
Recent Comments
- S on Expectations for Ivan Nova
- Alex on The Yankees in terms of trade value, from worst to first
- theboogiedown on Eric Chavez Is Deep, Man
- on Expectations for Ivan Nova
- on Expectations for Ivan Nova
- on Expectations for Ivan Nova
- Brad Vietrogoski on Eric Chavez Is Deep, Man
- bg90027 on Eric Chavez Is Deep, Man
- StephenH on Shiny New Thing Syndrome
- Greg on Shiny New Thing Syndrome
-
Authors
Twitter
* TYA Twitter -
* EJ Fagan -
* Matt Imbrogno -
* William J. -
* Larry Koestler-
* Moshe Mandel -
* Sean P. -
* Eric Schultz -
* Matt Warden -
-
Other Links
-
Blogroll
Blogs
- An A-Blog for A-Rod
- Beat of the Bronx
- Bronx Banter
- Bronx Baseball Daily
- Bronx Brains
- Don't Bring in the Lefty
- Fack Youk
- It's About The Money
- iYankees
- Lady Loves Pinstripes
- Lenny's Yankees
- New Stadium Insider
- No Maas
- Pinstripe Alley
- Pinstripe Mystique
- Pinstriped Bible
- River Ave. Blues
- RLYW
- The Captain's Blog
- The Girl Who Loved Andy Pettitte
- This Purist Bleeds Pinstripes
- Value Over Replacement Grit
- WasWatching
- Yankee Source
- Yankeeist
- Yankees Blog | ESPN New York
- Yankees Fans Unite
- YFSF
- You Can't Predict Baseball
- Zell's Pinstripe Blog
Writers
- Bats (NYT)
- Blogging the Bombers (Feinsand)
- Bombers Beat
- Buster Olney
- E-Boland
- Jack Curry
- Joe Posnanski
- Joel Sherman
- Jon Heyman
- Keith Law
- Ken Davidoff
- Ken Rosenthal
- LoHud Yankees Blog
- Marc Carig
- Tim Marchman
- Tom Verducci
Resources
- Baseball Analysts
- Baseball Musings
- Baseball Prospectus
- Baseball Think Factory
- Baseball-Intellect
- Baseball-Reference
- BBTF Baseball Primer
- Beyond the Box Score
- Brooks Baseball
- Cot's Baseball Contracts
- ESPN's MLB Stats & Info Blog
- ESPN's SweetSpot Blog
- FanGraphs
- Joe Lefkowitz's PitchFX Tool
- Minor League Ball
- MLB Trade Rumors
- NYMag.com's Sports Section
- TexasLeaguers.com
- THE BOOK
- The Hardball Times
- The Official Site of The New York Yankees
- The Wall Street Journal's Daily Fix Sports Blog
- YESNetwork.com
-
Site Organization
Categories
Tags
A.J. Burnett ALCS Alex Rodriguez Andy Pettitte Baltimore Orioles Bartolo Colon Boston Red Sox Brett Gardner Brian Cashman Bullpen CC Sabathia Chien-Ming Wang Cliff Lee Curtis Granderson David Robertson Derek Jeter Francisco Cervelli Freddy Garcia Game Recap Ivan Nova Javier Vazquez Jesus Montero Joba Chamberlain Joe Girardi Johnny Damon Jorge Posada Mariano Rivera Mark Teixeira Melky Cabrera Minnesota Twins New York New York Yankees Nick Johnson Nick Swisher Phil Hughes Prospects Red Sox Robinson Cano Russell Martin Sergio Mitre Series Preview Tampa Bay Rays Toronto Blue Jays World Series Yankees -
Site Stats
This may seem like an oversimplification but he’s a finished product now where he wasn’t then. I think you are probably reading too much into the Yankees leaving him unprotected. Scouting reports were pretty good on his stuff. I read 3 plus pitches but a lack of consistency a few years ago. I think the Yankees probably liked him a lot more than you are assuming. He just seemed so far away back then that it didn’t seem necessary to protect him. He hadn’t pitched above FSL and his results were pretty mixed at that level. It seemed like a real stretch that he could make a major league club or that anyone would select him. Of course, having someone else want your players can make you reassess what you have so maybe that occurred too.
As to why the die hard fan/saber crowd underestimated him, a large part is a strong bias against ground ball generating, low strikeout guys. Maybe that bias is right more often than not, but its going to cause people to underrate guys like Nova.
I still have trouble comparing him to Wang. He’s been great for us this year, no doubt, but I didn’t and still don’t see him as quite what Wang was. Wang when he was right consistently got more ground balls than Nova, and walked less than batter than Nova does. It is true he struck out less batters than Nova does, but I still see him as a notch below Wang.
Nova has been better than I thought he would be though. He deserves all the credit in the world for tightening his curveball, and introducing that slider. I originally had him slated as a number 5 starter, with number 4 upside. I think he has clearly proven himself to be a very good number 3 starter, but I would still worry about the rotation if we go into next season with him as our number 2.