If you're so happy, then why opt out?
CC Sabathia is widely expected to exercise his opt-out clause in the coming weeks. In discussing it after the ALDS loss, he said baseball is a business, which is something I think most fans accept. As Joel Sherman noted yesterday, given the lack a true #1 starter on the free agent market this year there will be no shortage of suitors for his services should he hit the open market. The Nats, Tigers, Blue Jays and Red Sox will all have a need and money to spend. Theo may look to make a bold move with the Cubs. The Angels could lure him back home. The Texas Rangers could be big players, especially if they lose CJ Wilson. from CC Sabathia’s official Twitter account must have been comforting to Yankee fans worried that the big lefty has designs to bolt this offseason. Here’s what CC said in his Tweet last week:
@CC_Sabathia CC Sabathia
Missing the Bronx already,my daughter just asked me “can we go to Yankee game” I love NYC
But if that’s the case, then he really shouldn’t exercise the opt out to begin with. The intent of the opt out clause was to give him an option to leave if he wasn’t happy here. During contract negotiations with Brian Cashman back in 2008 Sabathia expressed “concerns about living in New York with his wife and children”. It was widely rumored that CC preferred the west coast as a San Francisco resident and native of Vallejo, CA. At the press conference for CC’s signing, his wife Amber revealed that the opt-out clause was Cashman’s idea, saying this:
“The whole opt-out thing was never really our choice,” Amber Sabathia revealed Thursday, at her husband’s introductory news conference at Yankee Stadium. “We never asked for it. It was (general manager Brian Cashman’s) way of saying, ‘I know you’re going to love it here. If you’re not happy after three years, then I want you not to be here. But I know you’re going to love it, and this is going to be your home.’
“When he said that, I knew we’re going to love it.”
Put yourself in the shoes of a Yankee executive. A player expresses family-related concerns during a contract negotiation which you address with an opt out clause. He then turns around 3 years later and uses that clause to extract a multi-year extension from you, despite the painfully obvious fact that both he and his family are perfectly happy here. Wouldn’t you feel a bit betrayed? Wouldn’t the good guy image of Sabathia take a hit in your eyes? The Yankee brass are big boys, and I’m sure they can handle this and far worse. But in business these are things you notice and don’t forget.
Let me make something abundantly clear. I have no problem whatsoever with any player maximizing his value during the short and unpredictable time they have the opportunity to be at the major league level. You and I would do the very same thing if given the chance. But I don’t think its too much to ask someone to deal with their employer fairly and honestly. Especially one who you plan on having an ongoing relationship with. There have been no reports of the Yanks deserving this for any reason. The Yankees have done nothing but cater to CC at every opportunity. The travel first class wherever they go. The clubhouse is a country club, which he shares with some of the biggest stars in the game. He has a chance to win it all every year. Opting out would be perfectly legal and make business sense for himself. I’m simply saying its dubious in terms of ethics, and doesn’t match the public image that’s portrayed of him. If CC chooses to opt out, if I was his employer I would think he’s not the good guy he portrays himself to be, at least not in his business dealings.
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Oh for God’s sake. It’s a BUSINESS. Your image of a poor naive Yankees’ executive is a fantasy.
“I’m shocked! Shocked that gambling is going on here!”
Sounds like you didn’t even read the article.
Oh, I read the article all right, and my response is exactly on target.
Try to come up with better than a debating ploy in response.
Seriously there is no point wasting time on this, Cashman gave him the opt-out option, and if you think about it from CC’s perspective he can sign a contract that probably takes him to the end of his career.
Yes, CC would be a saint if he didn’t opt-out and kept “true” to what he tweeted. But he never said that he wouldn’t opt out or anything of the like, so let the man get a longer guaranteed contract and be done with talking about this.
Steve, I agree with your piece 110%. That’s why from this fans perspective the Yankees should make a good faith effort to re-sign him if he does indeed opt-out, but not get stupid. And in my opinion anything more than 5 years guaranteed with possible a 6th year vested is stupid. If they can’t re-sign him during the exclusive negotiating period then the Yankees should offer him arbitration take the draft choice and go “balls to the wall” to sign perhaps CJ Wilson, perhaps Yu Darvish or possible make that elusive trade for an “ace”. Worse case they “tread water” for the 2012 season and jump on one of the many FA starting pitchers that will available at the 2012 trade deadline or FA class at the end of the 2012 season. I like CC a lot, but sometimes you just have to say enough is enough.
I would like to add, hopefully we are all wrong and CC doesn’t opt-out. I’m just not going to hold my breath. Just my opinion.
That’s the ideal. But how many times have we seen the Yankees outbid the Yankees
CC’s great in so many ways, just not 7 years great
Ed, we’ve seen it many times. I’m just not sure that with Hal especially running the show now and Cashman that we will see it in the future. They both seem to realize that while overpaying maybe a fact of life that being contract stupid isn’t the wisest thing to do. And I believe we started to see that in the Lee negotiations when they certainly could have thrown more money at Lee and again with the Jeter deal. Hopefully the Yankees have learned their lesson. We’re about to find out.
1950 .i agree..2012 is a key year..also if he opts out..look for a hitter…keep montero..
I still say we need to be careful with this “we’ll just wait until 2012″ mantra I’ve seen thrown around in regards to both CC, and CJ. There is a very real chance that all the “aces” are off the board when we get there, and you end up with a bunch of 2′s or less. Marcum, Sanchez, Danks, etc… aren’t bad players, but they aren’t better than CC or CJ.
Yes. We need to add another ace, not subtract one and wait.
cj is a yes now.
I totally agree. Would he really go somewhere else to earn a few million more than the multi-millions he’s already getting? Doesn’t there come a point where enough is enough, where greed and ego replace reality?
Of course it’s a business, but its also more, and its also a 2-way street. Sure take a few million more somewhere else or try to get some more per year (average). The last Yankee to do that was A-rod; CC, is it worth having his greedy image?
I am not sure how the player’s union would view the situation, but I agree with the sentiment that if CC wants to stay then he should just negotiate to have more years added on to his deal rather than opting out and “testing the FA market” again.
It would go against conventional wisdom if he chose not only to pass on opting out, but also to leave his current deal the way it is.
In my opinion, one of the biggest differences between a professional athlete and a business professional is coverage. If I were given this clause, would I exercise it? No, because I’m the one doing the negotiating and I’m the one dealing directly with my boss on a daily basis. For an athlete, you have an agent, a PR manager, etc. to handle all of the business. What are the chances that CC and Brian Cashman actually sit down in the same room more than a few times a year?
If CC opts out, he can just say his agent (and the union) recommended it, and he trusts their opinion. And that will be accepted.
That’s fair, and I tried to make it clear from a legal or business perspective I have no issue with it. My criticism was more from a PR standpoint, noting the inconsistencies in his position. He is a public figure, and deserves a hit there.
Sounds like whining. Players do shitty things all the time but that somehow doesn’t affect what we think of them. I don’t see the difference here.
As an athlete we shouldn’t change our opinions of him. However, CC has sold himself as one of the good guys on the team, and what he’s doing to the Yanks is “shitty” as you said.
If it were me, and I made an oral commitment not to opt out except if I was unhappy, I would honor it. CC is already making so much money that millions more won’t matter, to him or his heirs. The best way out is to do a contract extension for one or two years, if Cashman will do it.
I agree, and think there’s a compromise to be struck here. I’ve already stated numerous times from a legal or business perspective I have no problem with it, I’m criticizing the inconsistencies of his position and using a clause intended for his family for monetary gain. My criticism is more ethical than anything else.
If he’s not a hard ass about it and takes 1 year and a vesting option, I won’t complain much. But if he pushes it to free agency and/or maximizing every dollar he can get, then the stuff about him loving New York is all bullshit.
I agree. He has the right to opt out, but after saying several times that he wasn’t, he made it clear in ST that he probably was. That bothered me. We all know why the opt out was put in – and if he uses it, yeah, it will bother me again because it’s clear that he enjoys it here. What will tick me off is if he tries to squeeze as much $$$ and years from the Yankees as possible…..which he will probably do. Frankly, if he opts out, I let him go. I know it means we have no ace, but I’m willing to take a step back rather than give this guy a contract which will be bad the moment he signs it. If he thinks he can get more $$ and years elsewhere, I fervently hope he can. Let the Yankees thank him for his services and move on.
Honestly though we don’t take a step back without CC. We miss the playoffs entirely, unless we shoot for CJ and get him. Without Sabathia we have a rotation consisting of Nova, Burnett, Hughes, Noesi?, Warren?
He’s got us by the short hairs, and if we want to compete we have to at least extend a 5 or 6 year offer. I believe both Michael and UYF have expressed 5 year deals with vesting options, or team options. Those seems like the best idea.
I wouldn’t write off 2012 if CC bolts. It is possible we acquire an ace via trade.
Can’t let him go and realistically replace him. Not this year, and not next year either. If you let him go and try and trade for an ace as an opposing team I know I have you by the balls and would ask for Montero, Betances, Banuelos, and another lesser prospect because your desperate. Its not “do you want CC back?” its more of “how badly do the Yankees need him back.” Seriously he should just have a handshake deal with Cashman where they workout an extension, he opts out and the next day signs a new one. I would offer a 5 year guaranteed contract with a team option on the 6th and 7th year. If exercised than the 6th and 7th years must be picked up simultaneously. There you go CC, an extension and security. You hold onto your end of the deal and you have a really long lucrative contract. It gives the Yankees time to develop or sign an ace. I love love love team options, and going forward would try and put them in every single deal.
That’s actually a pretty inventive idea. Making both options have to be picked up at once. Though I would suspect he would want the contract front loaded, so there would be more of a chance of getting them picked up.
who was the guy on the brewers that refused a 100mil deal..then got hurt and it ..was all over,. he got cute and blew all that money
I remember that, but can’t remember who it was. Sure it was the Brewers?
Garciaparra also blew a $60 million contract offer, and wound up with a huge amount less.
def.. brewers
Steve, I’m not exactly sure how you figure the Red Sox will have a lot of money to spend this off season. By my calculation they have about $120M in committed salaries in just 12 players. That does not include having in all likelihood resigning Ortiz and Papelbon to the tune of a combined $25M plus or minus. That brings it to $145M. They still have to replace 2 starting pitchers (Dice K and ???). If you want to assume the question mark is CC Sabathia that would bring their payroll up to $180M and that doesn’t include any of the players that are arbitration eligible, etc… (like: Aceves, Salty and most importantly Ellsbury) and filling out the roster spots. So if that want to sign CC Sabathia their 2012 payroll could easily hit $190 to $195M plus or minus. Even without CC I would expect the Sox payroll in 2012 to hit in the neighborhood of $175 to $180M. That’s about $15 to $20 more than their 2011 payroll even without CC.
Just my opinion so unless the Sox unload Beckett for example I think CC is out reach for the Sox. That’s not to mention why in the world CC would even consider the Sox given their present situation and “back stabbing”.
I certainly expect the Sox to be a real player for CC. They may not get him, but it makes too much sense for them not to extend at least a 5 year deal, and maybe even 6. You either drive up the price on the Yankees, or you end up with a rotation of Sabathia, Lester, Beckett, and Buccholz. You could make aceves the 5th starter at that point and be good.
I doubt very seriously a 5 or 6 year offer from the Sox would get it done, anyway. I certainly don’t know but you have to assume that the Yankees are willing to go 5 years and potentially 6 either with a vesting option or maybe guaranteed. Plus like I said considering the state of the Red Sox right now unless the offer is substantially better than anything the Yankees offer he’d have to be crazy to accept it. And if he were to accept an offer from another team that is close to what the Yankees were offering then you know all of his rhetoric was “bull”. And I say good riddance. The grass isn’t always green on the other side.
Lackey has three more years and is untradeable because he’s not likely to give anyone even league average production at this point. Dice-K is making 10+ in 2012. Throw in $25+ for CC and that’s a lot of money to spend on the rotation going forward. They may try to drive the price up, but unless Henry loses his mind they can’t really afford that, you’re starting to talk luxury tax territory.
I wonder if the Angels would take him back if the Sox eat some salary. Just a thought. Barring that, you’re probably taking somebody else’s bad contract in return.
I really doubt it, they didn’t make much of an effort to resign him which suggests they weren’t that enthusiastic about him to begin with. In Rogers’ case they could eat a ton of salary and a team was willing to give at least something for him because he was coming off a year that was clearly an abberation. Lackey is a strikeout pitcher whose strikeout rates are down significantly, he’s unlikely to rebound to be more than a back-end starter, I think they will need to wait at least one more year before that deal is moveable.
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=1507&position=P
The odd thing about Lackey is the velocity was still there, though with a bit less movement. Overthrowing a bit? He seems to have either been unlucky or is just making the worst pitches at the worst times, which suggests that his head is screwed up.
That ballpark may be an issue as well, his career ERA was over 6 before he signed there. Whether that was a result of facing the BOS lineup or that park is in his head, I don’t know. I did see him quoted saying that he was expecting bad things to happen, so a change of scenery is on order and a rebound elsewhere wouldn’t surprise me.
I SAY LET HIM PITCH IN FENWAY. e.r.a .400 plus
Masserotti had a piece on the Globe’s website saying he expects some big moves this offseason that could include dealing Beckett and/or trading Ellsbury for pitching. I’m not sure if he was just editorializing or if he’s getting this from the team, but there’s one scenario on how you open up some payroll.
One thing he said that’s indisputable, the last time the Sox had a team that quit (after the massacre in 06) ownership ordered some big fundamental changes. You may recall that winter they picked up Dice-K, Drew, Lugo, Okijima and promoted Pedroia. He expects more of the same, though it appears it will have to be more focused on trades, as you said.
Steve, dealing Beckett and trading Ellsbury has the effect of freeing up about $25M in total payroll in 2012. I don’t see how that brings down the 2012 Sox payroll to the neighborhood of the 2011 payroll. For example: They use that $25M they just saved for signing CC he’s going to take all of that savings. The Sox still have to then replace Ellsbury and still have to sign 2 starting pitchers. Under that scenario the Sox go into the 2012 with a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, CC and 2 yet unnamed and unsigned starters. Their 2012 payroll still looks like a $180M plus minimum. And they still have Buchholz who to be honest hasn’t been that reliable health wise. I just don’t see CC in the cards for the Sox. No matter how I “shuffle the cards and the payroll” if the Sox intend to stay in the $170M payroll range in 2012 there is no way for them to sign CC Sabathia.
Plus I would have to think in addition to that right about now John Henry has to be looking at “long term” contract with a very fine tooth comb and you know CC is going to take 5 and potentially 6 years.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/boston-red-sox.html
You’re forgetting something that I should have mentioned. They expanded payroll from 06-07 by 23mil. If ownership wants a shakeup bad enough, they can OK another expansion.
Steve, absolutely they can. I just also was under the impression that they want to stay under the luxury tax. And presuming with the next CBA the luxury tax will be in the same general area It just then becomes a decision do they go over it and if so by how much.
Besides like I’ve said in earlier comments here. If CC doesn’t sign by the exclusive negotiating period with the Yankees assuming they make him a good faith offer. I say offer him arbitration take the draft choice and move on because their is definitely something else then going on with him.
If that’s the case the Yankees should go “balls to the wall” to sign CJ and/or Darvish or try for that elusive trade for an ace. At some point enough is enough.
You’re right, the Sox have treated the tax threshold as something of a ceiling. I’m just saying I believe Masserotti when he says a shakeup is coming, and assume they’ll work out the details. It’s very hard to go back next year with a team that collapsed in 2011 and sell that to your fan base. Especially THAT fan base paying those ticket prices.
As to Plan B for CC, that will be very interesting if it unfolds. I think the Yanks are ready and willing to make some big trades, so we’ll have to see if they can find trade partners.
Steve, I’ve enjoyed your insight. I’m really looking forward to see how things play out in about 3 weeks.
I wish the Yankees good luck, good signings and good trades.
Thanks, and thanks as always for reading.
Correct me if I am wrong, but where did CC say he would not opt out if he liked NY? Although that may have been Cashman’s intention, that doesn’t mean Sabathia has to abide by it. The bottom line is the Yankees gave Sabathia and opt out, so there is no reason why he shouldn’t use it to his advantage. Doing so isn’t unethical and certainly doesn’t mean Sabathia isn’t a good guy.
You can’t divorce yourself from a negotiation after the fact. He raised concerns, Cashman addressed them, and now he’s using the opt-out for personal gain, not his family. It’s perfectly legal and makes financial sense, but I think I laid out pretty clearly in the piece why its unethical. If I was his employer I would feel double crossed.
BTW-In his first year with the team I recall him making statements about not using the opt-out. But even without googling them, I think the point I made stands.
I wasn’t in the negotiation, so I can’t speak to what went on between the two sides, but again, nowhere in print can I find Sabathia saying he wouldn’t opt out if he liked NY. That is an assumption you are making.
Unethical is a strong word, so I don’t agree that you’ve made a compelling a case to suggest Sabathia opting out would qualify. I can understand why some would be upset if Sabathia opts out, but that doesn’t make him a bad person. It’s his contractual right, so I have no problem with him abiding by terms that the New York Yankees, one of the most sophisticated organizations in sports, suggested.
The quotes from Amber Sabathia aren’t enough to tell you the reason why the opt out was added? I’m not making assumptions, I’m taking her at her word.
This may be what I was thinking of when I said he made statements about the clause. I found this from Stark, he did (unsurprisingly) downplay the opt out after signing:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090507
We asked CC Sabathia this spring about the “out” clause in his new contract that would allow him to bail out of The Bronx after three years. His reply was that it “really wasn’t important,” that it was “something my agent put in there,” and that it didn’t have anything to do with concerns about whether he’d feel comfortable in New York.
“It was just something my agent came up with, and I just went with it,” he said.
I have to add this contradicts what his wife said, saying that it was Cashman’s idea, not his agent.
Sabathia’s quote above dismisses the entire premise. If it was something his agent negotiated, then good for him. He now has the choice to exercise it.
CC and A-rod are similar in many ways.
Hypocrite.(A-rod just more stupid)
Lucky NY already have A-rod so he won’t be a target.(What did he say Dallas Braden last year? Some people called this LEADERSHIP?)They all know that as long as they do well,NY fans won’t care how much they get.NY fans won’t give a damn shit when player give Yankees a discount.Fans only care about winning(Who bring it).
They have the ability to win ball game,and show confidence in their ability.That’s why CC will OPT-out this winter,just like A-rod did 4years ago.
CC SHOULD OPT OUT AND SIGN WITH THE RED SOX FOR LESS $$$. WE NEED A BIG TIME ACE