Bobby Valentine-”CC’s gone”
Let the rumor mill begin. I’m not sure what to make of this, but its been out there the past few days so I just thought I’d pass it along. ESPN analyst Bobby Valentine was quoted as saying he “knows” CC will opt out and “head to Los Angeles or Chicago”. I didn’t hear him say this myself and would prefer a transcribed quote from a major news outlet, but it has been reported in enough fan sites and blogs that I’ll take reports of Valentine’s quote as largely accurate. Some sites also have MLBN’s Howard Reynolds agreeing with Valentine. We’re left to wonder where he would get this from. The most obvious connection would be Greg Genske of Legacy Sports Group, who represents Sabathia. I tried to find who Valentine’s agent is, but came up empty. Saying that CC will opt out isn’t newsworthy, everyone assumes that will happen. But saying he’s planning to head elsewhere is something we haven’t heard from anyone but Bobby V.
My first impression is this is just negotiating through the press. The Yanks have been doing some of their own, using mouthpieces like Kay to say they’re concerned about CC’s weight and loss of stuff down the stretch. But don’t underestimate the potential for these negotiations to get ugly, and don’t dismiss the possibility that he leaves. As we saw last year with Derek Jeter, and as Brian Cashman has been quoted saying many times, there’s no such thing as an easy negotiation. Mariano Rivera’s last contract was a tough negotiation, and there weren’t any other realistic suitors. The Yanks want him back, CC has stated he wants to come back, but once someone declares free agency you never know what can happen. Stay tuned.
EDIT 10-10-11 7:06 AM-Commenter Michael P. raises an excellent point. Neither of the teams Valentine mentions currently has a GM, so its impossible to “know” who their offseason targets will be. Tough to take Bobby V (who I like a lot) seriously on this one.
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My take:
CC hasn’t been himself since summer.
CC has been pretty awful during post season.
CC is very obese.
If I were the Yankees GM, and if CC opted out, I would offer CC a contract – but only for less money and years than his current contract. Too much risk to get another Pavano.
Its easy for all of us to say “draw the line at 5 years and if he doesn’t accept it, let him walk” but the reality is there isn’t a viable alternative out there via free agency. If someone else like the Nats offers CC 6 or 7 years, the Yanks will either have to match it or lose him.
The Yanks can explore the trade market. There are a number of ace quality pitchers who will be FAs in 2012 that may be available this off season, but until something comes together you can’t count on that. Just this afternoon some of us were kicking around the idea of Matt Cain, but quickly realized the Yanks just aren’t a fit.
Cole Hamels is the best of the big pitcher free agent class in my opinion, but I don’t think he’d be available. I wonder if Marcum or Garza would be available, and for what. I don’t think the Brewers could re-sign both Marcum and Greinke, so maybe they would Marcum this offseason to try and recoup on Brett Lawrie. Garza is the Cubs best pitcher, so they may only trade him in an overpay. Both have AL East experience, neither are aces, but they would be more realistic than the Hernandez, Hamels, and Kershaw’s of the world.
With the Brewers certain to lose Fielder, you wonder if they go into rebuild mode for 2012. You could see Greinke or Marcum becoming available. Of the two, I’ll take Marcum on a 1 year deal. Montero would be a good fit to replace Fielder, since most scouts view him as a 1B and that’s a great hitter’s park. The Brewers also don’t seem to value defense all that much, looking at their roster.
CC is too fat period, even Shaquille looks skinny compared to him, and he’s all muscle. CC must have put on 35-40 pounds in less than a year. When the camera pans the dugout, he’s always eating something.
When AJ performed better than CC in the playoffs, I knew CC didn’t have it this postseason.
Both games CC pitched in as a starter and in relief , the Yankee lost, the rookie Ivan even did better than CC!!
The Hefty-lefty is already well paid!
Shaq hasn’t been all muscle since his first season with the Miami heat.
CC Sabathia
Missing the Bronx already,my daughter just asked me “can we go to Yankee game” I love NYC @Newsday by @KenDavidoff. bit.ly/qBvv3m””
24 minutes ago
FWIW….
CC will be 32 midway through the 2012 season, a 5 year contract should he opt-out is plenty. If another team wants to offer him 6 or even 7 years at about $25M per so be it. Offer him arbitration if he turns it down take the draft choice and move on. The Yankees have several good pieces between MLB players with just a year or 2 experience and some exciting prospects that I’m sure would be attractive to another team as a trade partner.
If 2012 has to be somewhat of a transition year for the Yankees it is what it is. The 2013 FA class in pitchers is very good that along with some of the young guys maturing in the minors like Banuelos should then make 2013 a very good year. Just my opinion.
In any case we should have an indication of CC’s intentions in the not to distant future.
I would agree that the negotiating window is key. If he goes FA, he’s not just looking for a few years tacked on somewhere that he’s happy, he’s looking for more. As we saw with Pettitte and Lee last year, sometimes money can’t make the difference.
Steve this maybe a little off topic but maybe not. Assuming CC opts-out and the Yankees tread water until the 2013 FA class which 2 say of the following do think they should set their sights on assuming they are still available at the end of the 2012 season.
Cain, Danks, Greinke, Hamels, Jeremy Guthrie, Shaun Marcum, Anibal Sanchez, Jonathan Sanchez, Ervin Santana, Jake Peavy. I deleted Liriano from the list because I think he’s done stick a fork in him.
Plus I believe CJ Wilson and Mark Buehrle are really the only viable starters available via FA this off season.
Of everyone I’ve mentioned above if you were the Yankees which 2 or 3 would you set your sights on.
wilson at the right years..hamels if healthy..the rest will or be done already. we will have the kids ready by then..with luck
As trade targets Danks, Marcum, Anibal Sanchez. As 2012 FAs I really like Cain and Hamels.
The Yanks don’t match up well with the Giants for Cain or Sanchez. I’ve never loved Peavy or Santana. Too many questions about Greinke to commit big money or talent.
agree uyf,, with everything..let him walk if he wants 6 or more..no way.angels will go after puljos….they have three good pitchers now..so CC loses a big player in the bidding.. who is out there to give him 6 years at that money.
The Yankees do not need another albatross of a contract like Arod. He opts out I let him go and take his captain crunch with him. We have enough assets to acquire a top line starter. He has a couple good years left granted but no pitcher with a long term contract at this age works out .
Ok everyone thats a good thought and all to just let him walk I know hes made more than all of us combined and all but take the emotion out of it and really think about it. Think about what he just saw his buddy Lee get and CC has pitched better than Lee the past couple of years. You guys are fine with heading into 2012 with a rotation of Nova, Burnett, Hughes,Nobody, Nobody? And secondly how would you replace him? With who? Because those 3 guys are all question marks. How do you tread water and hold it together with sticks and glue and still say your trying to win a WS with a straight face? 6 year deal for CC for the same amount of money and throw some incentives to sweeten the deal. Thats what I’m hoping for.
Honestly how can a man not have opted out of his current contract yet, and somehow is “gone” to two clubs WITHOUT GM’s? This sounds like totally baseless reporting and an obvious negotiating ploy.
Call me naive. But “incentives” to a guy you are offering potentially $25M plus or minus to, to play baseball. My guess is if $25M per isn’t enough to get the deal done even if it’s for 5 years then there is something else going on in CC’s life other than a desire to play in the Bronx. By my calculation CC signed $161M 7 year contract. At the end of this season he is still owed $92M over the remaining 4 years. That means he’s been paid $69M for 3 years work. If the Yankees offer him a new 5 year deal at $25M per that means been what he’s already been paid and the new offer he will be making for 8 years $194M. What kind of incentives does a club have to offer someone that they are already offering to pay that kind of money to. Let him look at what Lee was offered it still doesn’t come to that sort of money.
The Yankees already have 2 huge contracts that aren’t going to pay off in their latter years (A-Rod and Tex) they don’t need another with CC. Sad but true sometimes you just need to walk away.
Just a side thought and this maybe is just me. But I have a hard time reconciling the reason for bending over backwards for CC. He was originally given the opt-out clause I believe to make him and his family feel more comfortable about New York and their new surroundings. The opt-out clause I don’t believe was included in the contract as a means to “hold up” the Yankees for more money.
I would hate to see him go but at some point enough is enough.
uyf agree again. some people see this as the sky is falling..if he brought us this years world champ ring i would say give it to him..but he did not..let him walk..if he takes an un reasonable stance..we lost with him ..i bet you we could lose without him..and less 7 years @ 25mil..yank fans don’t panic..the guy is beyond hugh. only will get worse..
Don’t hold the opt out against CC. He negotiated that into the deal fair and square, and it was actually Cashman’s idea to include it. Also, don’t forget we have a player that we obtained via opt out clause that helped us win a WS, namely Burnett.
Steve, I wasn’t holding the opt-out against CC. My only point was that the intent of the opt out was for CC to “opt out” should he or his family have issues living in NY. I don’t believe the intent was for him to out-out for more money and or years. For him to use that clause as a tool to get more money is wrong in my opinion, that’s all I’m saying. And if that is the case then I think the Yankees should let him walk rather than be held hostage for more money. That’s just my opinion.
Excellent point, the two cities named don’t even have execs in place, so how can anyone “know” what the direction of the franchises will be? Excellent point, I wish I would have thought of it so I could include it in the original post.
I mentioned that this struck me as something that would originate from CCs agent, and I think you just nailed it.
First of all CC has no way pitched better than Lee the last few years and you replace him with Wilson and Darvish for the same money it would cost for a CC extension. He’s overweight, has had knee problems(due to being fat no doubt)and has a ton of innings on that arm. Plus he was no more than a middle of the rotation performer the second half and in the playoffs. If he wants more years I say let him go!!
Let’s sign Yu Darvish, he will bring revenue from overseas, and the Yankees will be bigger than ever. He would make a good #2 next to CC. We have to resign CC if its reasonable.
He’s very interesting, but he has a lot of innings, and a lot of pitches on that arm for someone his age. Nippon has pretty much abused his arm since he was what 20? I wouldn’t want to get super ridiculous with the bidding, but he is the type of risk that we should take when available.
Hey Chris,
I know I owe you a response on Wilson/Darvish; been tied up but have a lot to say on it; will either comment back to you or write a post on it soon.
let the stinksox sign him..darvish might be a stinky fish like the majority japan’s pitchers
This site was the one that sold me on Darvish. First article i ever read when I found this place was “Is Darvish the next great Yankee righty?” And honestly this dude is good. Japan is widely regarded as a AAAA team. Well if Darvish had been doing this with the Yankees, he would not only be our best prospect, he would be the best pitching prospect in all of baseball. He represents the kind of high talent risk we wonder the Yankees dont take in the draft. He costs money, not a draft pick. He is 25. Is signing him a concern long term? Sure. Is signing a soon to be 32 year old with weight issues, and more innings on his arm a bigger risk? Food for thought.
Well said. At Darvish’s age, even with the innings, he’s probably worth a shot. At most his contract would be 6 years, but perhaps you could work a deal with him for 4 or 5. If CC stays, great (and I’d only add 1 yr to the contract or let him walk). If not, then it would appear that Wilson becomes the target this year, but I’d be fine if the Yankees stayed with what they had, looking for a mid-season trade.
At the end of August, CC had 19 wins.. At the end of the year CC had 19 wins. What is wrong with that picture? In the playoff game he was given a 2-0 lead, he gave it back, in the clinching game he gave up the winning run..This is NOT the description of an ace. He has been and is still in line for a GREAT payday. If 23 million per year for the next 4 yrs is not enough, let him go. Yeah, it might hurt, but much less than in 5 years when you are paying (A) automatic (R) repetitive (O) out (D) delivered and CC a combined 55 million dollars for players who are on the DL. How many elite pitchers have gone their whole career without a serious arm injury? Not many. CC hasn’t had one yet!
very well said..i hope he opts out..let’s see who gives him 7 years and 2 trailers filled with captain crunch..imagine this guy can not give up eating like a hog..he commits one of the seven deadly sins every day..